Talk Dirty to Me
By Keith Cronin | June 11, 2013 |
A couple of years ago, an excellent post by Therese generated some impassioned opinions about using “the F bomb” in one’s writing.
I myself took a strong stance in this discussion, ardently in favor of using such language when it seemed true to the characters and/or the story. I guess you could say I was “pro-fanity.” (Man, I kill me sometimes. It’s a gift, having such a way with words. But I digress…)
While I’ve not yet changed my mind about this, I’ll admit that my resolve has softened somewhat. Why? Because one very significant change occurred since that discussion:
I published a book.
Two years ago I took my F-bomber stance without having any real skin in the game. Sure, I’d published some short stories, and had been pretty active in online literary circles. But never had my writing been put under that most public of microscopes: the Amazon reviewing system. Now my book is out there, and I’ve learned that there are more people than I thought who are offended by profanity. And not just the F bomb. Several reviewers have taken me to task for “using the Lord’s name in vain.” Others simply complain about “swearing” or “foul language.”
My reaction to the first bad review was, well… fuck ‘em.
But then the second one came in. And then the third. (No, I have not reached that zenlike level of artistic detachment some authors claim to have achieved, where they never even look at their Amazon reviews. I read every single one, I admit.)
A word of reassurance: this is NOT a woe-is-me post about bad reviews, but an honest exploration of something that’s turned out to be a bigger issue than I’d expected. Those who know me should realize I don’t like to spend much time in Woe-ville. There are too many other better places to spend one’s time and energy. But I’ve been doing some thinking about this as I dip my toes into my next book project, and I thought I’d share some thoughts with you, and solicit your opinions – that is, if you give a damn about this kind of crap.
Logic be damned
I’ll confess, when I think about the TV shows and movies that are popular, not to mention the subject matter of many current best-selling novels, it baffles me that people are so offended by certain words. I mean, consider an average episode of CSI (or one of its 837 spin-offs). Every 60-minute episode shows us in lurid detail just how awful one human being can be to another. And I’m talking LURID detail, with microscopic zoom-ins, slow-motion reenactments, and that ever-so-popular black-light thingie that makes semen stains glow in the dark.
Week after week, the characters in these shows shoot, stab, rape, molest, kidnap, dismember, torture, decapitate, and flash that black-light thingie around the room – all punctuated every 12 1/2 minutes by commercials from some of our top consumer brands. And that’s just one TV franchise. Let’s not forget that Hannibal Lecter – the serial killer who freaking EATS the people he murders – is now the star of his own weekly TV show.
Apparently all this is perfectly fine for a prime-time audience. But whatever you do, please don’t say “shit.” Because that’s just plain offensive.
I’m sorry, but to me, this kind of thinking defies all logic. But that doesn’t change the reality – for me, or any other author. Here’s what Stephen King says about the matter, in his life-changingly awesome On Writing, which I recommend to any serious writer, whether or not you’re a fan of his fiction:
“As with all other aspects of fiction, the key to writing good dialogue is honesty. And if you are honest about the words coming out of your characters’ mouths, you’ll find that you’ve let yourself in for a fair amount of criticism. Not a week goes by that I don’t receive at least one pissed-off letter (most weeks there are more) accusing me of being foul-mouthed, bigoted, homophobic, murderous, frivolous, or downright psychopathic. In the majority of cases what my correspondents are hot under the collar about relates to something in the dialogue…”
King goes on to urge us to be true to our characters’ thoughts and voices. This concept resonates with me, and it’s something I want to do. But now having felt the sting of some pretty harsh reviews, I’m more aware that there is some risk involved.
“I gotta be me” vs. “I want you to like me”
It’s a balancing act, trying to decide how much emphasis to put on being true to yourself, and how much to put on trying to please your perceived market. On one hand we want to express ourselves through our art. But on the other, we’re also hoping somebody will actually buy that art. So where do you draw the line between candor and commerce?
[pullquote]On one hand we want to express ourselves through our art. But on the other, we’re also hoping somebody will actually buy that art.[/pullquote]
One thought I had was to get mathy about things. A search through my debut novel revealed that the F word appears 15 times. In hindsight, could some instances of the dreaded word have been swapped with less offensive words? Probably.
But could all of them be replaced? That, as my good friend Bill Shakespeare liked to say, is the question.
And the answer – if I am being honest with myself – is “no.” There are times when that character really would have used that word. And I know of what I speak, because even for me (as opposed to my fictional characters), there are times when there just really is no substitute for the F word. Like it or not, it’s an established part of my vocabulary.
Some background: While my parents were intelligent, articulate people, it’s safe to say that my career path (paths, really) often strayed from loftier circles. I’ve toured the Deep South in a country band (picture the chicken-wire scene in the Blues Brothers movie), worked on loading docks and in warehouses, and acted as emcee for the house band in a truly evil biker bar frequented by ex-cons and Klansmen. Suffice to say, the use of “colorful metaphor” has seeped into my language pretty deeply.
But here’s the thing. To me, the so-called “F bomb” is a word of remarkable versatility and nuance, capable of being used as a noun, verb, adjective, or adverb. That’s pretty good bang-for-the-buck for just one word and its basic variants. So the idea of speaking – or writing – without it is like removing a favorite spice from my kitchen.
[pullquote]To me, the so-called “F bomb” is a word of remarkable versatility and nuance, capable of being used as a noun, verb, adjective, or adverb. That’s pretty good bang-for-the-buck for just one word and its basic variants.[/pullquote]
Don’t get me wrong – I totally get the whole “there’s a time and a place” thing. I mean, I don’t swear in front of old ladies, or in a school or house of worship (although I did once get thrown out of class in middle school for an unintentional expletive uttered after a particularly humiliating mathematical experience at the blackboard in front of everybody. But I digress…).
The bottom line is that it’s a word I use – both as a man and as a writer. And frankly I don’t see that changing anytime soon. So while I can maybe trim down my F-frequency, I doubt I’ll eliminate the word entirely from my work.
Getting right with the Lord
Now as far as taking the Lord’s (or anybody else’s) name in vain, I gotta say – that’s simply how a HUGE number of people talk. From the “Oh. My. God.” you hear in every episode of Friends or Seinfeld to the “Jesus Christ” your buddy barks when he hits his thumb with a hammer, the reality is that plenty of people talk this way. Including many of my characters. Trying to cut that device from my characters’ dialog or inner monologue seems both impractical and counter-productive. I want my characters to be believable, and for that to happen, they need to talk and think like real people, dammit.
Calculating your PMI
Getting back to the mathy stuff, it’s an interesting exercise to search your own manuscript for profanity. Maybe you already know there’s none in your book. If so, good for you – you’ve got one less challenge to deal with!
But for those who may have stories that aren’t quite ready for Disney, it can be both enlightening and surprising to see just how potty-mouthed your characters are. So I encourage you to take a moment to evaluate the frequency and intensity of the potentially offensive language in your manuscript. We’ll call this your Potty Mouth Index (or, PMI).
Keith’s highly scientific PMI methodology:
- For each F word, give yourself 5 points.
- For each body part named in a way that primetime TV would bleep, give yourself 4 points.
- For each scatological reference (a fancy way to describe the more inflammatory variations of “poop”) give yourself 3 points.
- For each reference to God that is not made in the form of prayer, give yourself 2 points.
- For each angry or surprised utterance that you would only hear spoken in a cable TV show or a movie rated PG-13 or higher, give yourself 1 point.
NOTE – if all this seems like too much work, a more scaled-down approach is to just search for the following four words: God, Jesus, Christ, and the F word. From my experience those are probably the most divisive words in terms of offending your readers (although some of mine apparently consider shit to be a pretty crappy word to use, too).
What’s an acceptable PMI number? Um, I have no idea.
But if the number you come up with is higher than you expected, you might want to take a moment to reevaluate each instance, to make sure that’s really the word you need. In my case, this exercise would result in me making only a few changes. Then again, I’m a confirmed potty mouth. Your mileage may vary.
Enough about me – let’s talk about YOU
So, how did you do on the PMI test? Are you more of a potty mouth than you thought?
If you find yourself inclined to use “colorful” language, how do you strike a balance between being true to your characters, and being considerate of your readers’ potential sensitivities?
Put the shoe on the other foot. As a reader, are there certain words you consider highly offensive and/or deal-breakers?
I’d love to hear your thoughts. And as always, thanks for reading!
Image licensed from iStockphoto.com.
Author of the novels Me Again (originally published by Five Star/Gale), and Tony Partly Cloudy (published under his pen name Nick Rollins), Keith Cronin (he/him) is a corporate speechwriter and professional rock drummer who has performed and recorded with artists including Bruce Springsteen, Clarence Clemons, and Pat Travers. Keith’s fiction has appeared in Carve Magazine, Amarillo Bay, The Scruffy Dog Review, Zinos, and a University of Phoenix management course. A native of South Florida, Keith spends his free time serenading local ducks and alligators with his ukulele.
Funny, I am very good about not swearing in front of my kids (who are now more than old enough to hear it–and say it!) or in most sort of public settings. In the right crowd, however, I can and do let fly with the best of them. When I first started writing, I really hesitated to put it down on paper. It was right for my character, it was right for the situation, but I found it hard to drop that first F-bomb.
The one word that is hardest for me to use (out loud and in writing) is the C word. I find it vile. It makes my skin crawl. And I’ve got a character in my current work who would certainly use it. I just hope I don’t find the occasion for him to do so.
Oh, and I scored a 341 for my first (still unpublished) work. I believe they’re all justified, but we’ll see. I’m revising it now.
Great post, Keith! Had me laughing and cursing at the same time, just to exercise my right to do so (particularly while I’m all alone in my office and no one will be offended).
I’ve gotten around that problem so far in my WIP by writing fantasy and ‘making up’ some creative alternative world curses for the different cultures. I must admit, though, that even in non-fantasy, normal world writing, I find creative cursing far more entertaining than the occasional “F-bomb” and far more fun to write.
But, there are definitely characters for whom creative cursing would not ‘fit’–characters who would by their very nature stick to the standards and place sufficient varying emphasis on that single word to express almost any emotion. I’m curious though, does literate profanity get the same scrutiny if you spell it out phonetically like someone actually says it (with extra syllables and long-drawn out vowels), not just it’s legalized dictionary spelling? E.g. sheeeiiit rather than sh*t?
Thanks for this discussion. I, too, am a confirmed potty mouth. I love the versatility of the F-word. However, I learned the same lesson you did, although thankfully before I published.
Beta readers hated that my 30-something nice Italian girl character would drop it so repeatedly. That and just about every other curse word out there. (Hey, I write from experience)
So, I changed them all to Italian curse words. And that really made all the difference in the story. I’ve gotten nothing but great reviews. One even said, she loved how I cursed in Italian — it was something she heard when she was growing up and it brought back fond memories.
As for taking the Lord’s name in vain, I got around that one by always using “Jesus, Mary, and Joseph”. I think if you use JC singularly, that’s a bad thing, but if you go with the trio it’s okay.
My true life PMI would be a million. (Sorry, I curse like a drunken sailor) My writing PMI wouldn’t probably be much. I’ve gotten it down to just one single really well-placed F*ck you (or off, whichever is called for) and maybe one or two son-of-a-bitch. But now that I know how to swear in Italian, who knows, I may need to learn all kinds of new languages. My characters will all be ethnic. Stronzo anyone?
I like to say that I celebrate Talk Like a Pirate Day one day out of the year, as opposed to the other 364 when I celebrate “Curse Like a Sailor Day”
Thanks, Anne – I love the Italian cursing idea! In your situation that sounds like the perfect choice.
This is an interesting post. As I tell my friends who read my debut novel BABY GRAND and are SHOCKED at the language: Just because I don’t use those words every day doesn’t mean I don’t know them. :) My book came out last year, and even after losing review stars for language and getting thumbs downs from readers when I meet them in book clubs, I am still totally in favor of profanity — as long as the book calls for it. Some of the bad dudes in my book like to curse. Case closed. “Bad words” are a part of their fabric. I can’t imagine holding back just because I’m worried some readers won’t like it. To me, that’s the same as writing about vampires just because they’re popular — you’re letting external things sway you from what you want to write. As long as you stay true to yourself — and your characters — I say let those curse words fly and that sailor in you sing!
Loved this!! I can have a pretty bad potty mouth, partly because I enjoy disproving the saying that bad language is the sign of a small vocabulary. In everyday conversation, friends will stop me and say, Stop using big words! That’s fun. It’s equally fun to simplify the conversation with four letter words.
But I hold the potty back in my writing, finding other creative ways for characters to communicate frustration and anger… until the situation really really warrants stronger language. I’ll have to go back and check out the PMI score… this kinda reminds me of a swear jar I made for an ex…
You would think that, after what you see on TV these days, people wouldn’t be offended by foul language. They’re only words, right? But I have to say that when I come across the F word in a book, I do find it jarring, and it pulls me away from the story. Not a good thing.
From the other side…I loved Stephen King’s work and read each Asti came out, starting with Carrie. Then I got the the point where I was so tired of the f word on every page that I didn’t want to spend time in his world anymore. So I quit reading him until just recently. He has mellowed. I may have toughened up some. We get along.
Context is everything. If you write a character who swears into a romance novel, you probably need to soft pedal with description–though not always. If you write smart-ass contemporary suspense, you’ve got a lot of latitude. Readers who mind won’t come back, and you have to be okay with that. Readers who share your world view will be panting for the next release.
Auto correct is a bitch. Should be “I read each as it came out.”. Though Asti sounds good…
I was so very aware of the reader-backlash issue when I was writing what will become my second book (to be released in March, 2014, w00t), that it spooked me a bit–and I wrote that blog post you referenced. But what Stephen King said is the reason I wasn’t able to remove more than a few of my F-bombs:
Yeah. It wouldn’t have been honest any other way. Trust me, I tried alternatives in several spots. No go.
My copy edits recently came in and I did notice that my copy editor changed a few instances of “goddammit” to the full-fledged thing. I immediately had the image of my Catholic mother giving me that look. Trust me, fear of what my mom will say to me trumps fear of what readers will write about me on Goodreads any day.
Therese – my mother, who herself was a journalist and speechwriter, was not fond of foul language. So I kept putting her off when she’d ask to read my first (unsold) novel, a mafia comedy that had a LOT of profanity in it.
She finally brought me around by saying, “Keith, do you really think I’ll run into any words I haven’t seen before?” Turns out she loved that manuscript, once I had the balls to send it to her!
Therese, our mothers must know each other. I did not use the F bomb in my book for fear of what Mom would say. Also, I wasn’t aware that I shouldn’t describe an actual rape. I did. It was crucial to the character’s makeup.
I hate the C word in real life and won’t ever use it. I try to not use God or Jesus in profane ways but certainly used other profanity when appropriate.
The sex scenes were toned down a little, too. I left a lot to the imagination. I doubt my mom has ever attempted a blow job in her life!
She still loves me, even after reading my book – but will she after book 2? LOL
Great post. Real food for thought.
I used to swear up a storm in real life, but that pretty much all changed when I had children. With two pre-schoolers in the house, my repertoire of curse words is limited to a heartfelt, “Goodness!” and the occasional, “Holy dooley!”
But as I tell my children, there’s no such thing as bad words, there are just words that aren’t appropriate in some situations, or from some people. So I don’t shy away from cursing in my fiction when it’s required. As long as it fits the character and the story, as well as the theme of the story, I’m good with it.
Jo, you’ve reminded me of something about my parents. They were big-time profanity euphemism users. You know: shoot, gosh darn, oh fudge, gee-crimony, etc. I think my sister were in grade school when we started whispering the ‘real’ words they ‘meant’ to say behind their backs. It was a fun game for us. I’m sure they felt better about their language, though.
My mom would always say “God bless America” when she was mad about something. And my grandmother used to say “Lord love a duck.”
I am a prude in real life. But I don’t write about myself, I write the stories of my characters, and some wouldn’t hesitate to swear when the time is right. So be it. How can I dig deep into a character’s head if I refuse to speak with their tongue? I can’t.
Go, Keith!
Denise Willson
Author of A Keeper’s Truth
I’ve struggled with this. I’ve written two books, both of which have subtle Christian themes of forgiveness and mercy. However, there are characters in the books, including the protagonist who would occasionally use the F-bomb and other profanity. I wrote profanity into the first draft. During the rewrite I was able to critically remove about half of the curse words. The end result is a book that is sprinkled with profanity, which is my reality. I don’t curse regularly, and neither do most people I associate with, but most of us do sometime. My first book is written about my own history as a child in a cult, and honestly that experience didn’t “mess up my mind,” it “fucked up my mind.” The leader of the cult didn’t beat the “poo” out of me. He beat the “shit” out of me. Come on people. Get real!
Great observation, Dan – sometimes it’s really (and painfully) obvious when an author has failed to “get real.”
Fun post, Keith. I laughed a lot. And agreed even more. I’m sure I have a high PMI, but, like you last time, I’ve got no skin in the game. Doubt I’ll do a thing about it. But I may have my “come to Jesus” moment yet. Now is that an offensive use of His name? Not sure. Which goes to show me how silly all of this is.
Thanks for the laughs, and the insight!
Cheryl comes from the same place I do, it’s all about context. I wrote a thriller and used the f word sparingly, only when it was called for in the emotional tone of the text and made sense. In a non-fiction book I wrote about writing under the tutelage of John Grisham, I modified it to “What the F?” because again, it sounded appropriate. So if a powerful word feels out of context, consider cooling it off, if it feels natural, I say go with it. And expect negative comments, they come with the territory.
Interesting post! While I do not enjoy a continuous stream of profanity on every page, I do say that if the shoe . . . er, word fits, then wear/use it. I like to make some of my villains foul mouthed to make them offensive like a true bad guy. I have my protags use the occasional mild profane word to make them human and real. Profanity has existed since Biblical times, hence the Commandment against taking the Lord’s name in vain. It is a part of the world in which we and our characters live, unless of course, you are writing about a more genteel time than our own. Edith Wharton anyone?
I think it’s important to remember who your audience is. Are you aiming for a Christian church going soccer mom? Then you might want to lay off the swear words. Is your reader a 25 year old college student? They probably don’t care nearly as much, if any. I don’t care if there’s profanity in the books I read as long as it makes sense to be there. Would the character talk like that? Then hell yes, put it in there.
But it’s sort of like showing an accent. Less is more…one f-bomb is enough to shock the reader for an entire chapter. It’s a powerful thing, and there’s no reason to avoid using it just because it made one reader unhappy. Fixate on your intended audience, and write what makes THEM happy. And screw the rest. You can’t please everyone. It’s not possible.
Be true to your characters and your story, that’s what I say :-) Your real audience will thank you.
Thanks, Melinda – you bring up a key point: our audience. I would not expect an extremely conservative and/or religiously sensitive person to enjoy my stuff, so I’m really not trying to write for them.
We all need to remember: you can’t please everyone. So I write for an invisible group of people with whom I suspect I’d enjoy having a conversation and/or a cocktail. Or two.
And I have heard the F-bomb used as every one of those parts of speech in a single sentence during a home improvement project.
I interviewed Sen. Alan Simpson (then retired) once, and when I wrote up the story, it would not have sounded like him had I not included some “sons of bitches” in the quotes. I was a tad skittish about it, but no one complained.
Authors may also want to consider in a series whether the PMI goes up as the series continues. I’ve known a few folks who were pretty disillusioned when their favorite writer changed the amount of foul language they used over time.
Keith-
I live in New York City. Here you offend people if you *don’t* cuss like it’s a bad day in Hell.
I sometimes teach workshops for Christian writers. At first I tried to disarm–or possibly desensitize–participants with a joke about how, like characters, I’ll be true to my New York voice, followed by a jokey F-bomb.
That, uh, most certainly did not work for some Christian writers.
In local workshops, I similarly desensitize out of town participants by opening with, “Welcome to New York. Or as we say around here, Fuck You.” Usually gets a laugh. If anyone’s offended, I haven’t heard.
So I ask myself, what’s more important my voice or my message? I adjust for the audience. On the pages of a novel you don’t have that luxury. You must decide in advance what PMI score you’re willing to bear.
The thing is, you’ll never please all readers. Dirty words in dialogue are only one way to offend. Try killing a pet in a story. Or splitting an infinitive. Or having sex–your characters, I mean. Your book may wind up like those used books I see sometimes in which a sensitive prior reader has whited out offending words and passages.
The one complaint I’ve never heard is about violence. As you point out, Keith, that is totally acceptable to American audiences on TV, in movies and on the page. Sex, or even sensuality? Uh-uh.
Here’s the thing: It’s all in how you handle it. Sex that focuses on tab A and slot B has a good chance of turning off some readers. Sex that focuses on the inner experience of the POV character is less likely to do so.
I think it’s similar with foul language. It’s not only whether it’s true to a character’s voice, but whether the story situation warrants it. Is a given moment on the page truly worthy of an, “Oh, fuck”?
If it is, go ahead.
I’ll add one more though: a foul word in the mouth of a character who would never use such language can have tremendous impact. Just ask actress Betty White. She’s grown famous going against type.
Agreed on all points, Don. Or more succinctly, “Fuckin’ A.”
Nicely done, Keith. A relevant and timely subject worthy of contemplation and discussion. I have written 20+ novellas and a short novel and didn’t find need to use much profanity or the f-bomb…except one. The story opens with a falling down drunk navigating the parking lot to find his truck, his keys, his ass-with-both-hands before driving off and causing a horrendous auto collision. This nitwit had no other vocabulary but grievously offensive words and thoughts and I let it fly. I guarantee it will shock every right-thinking citizen and was intended to.
Uh oh. Or to put it another way: OMFG, I’m in big trouble. And not just with my mother, evidently.
I’m happy to announce the children in my ms don’t swear. Is that worth points?
I’m all about the honesty and agree with you 100%. I use profanity when the situation is appropriate – especially if it is how the character is flavored. Like you said, sometimes there is no adequate substitute for “f***.” That said, I try to keep this particular “flavor” or “color” to a minimum so that when I do use it, it packs punch where it needs to.
I have to say that recently I reread an example of sci-fi genre fiction that I’d enjoyed as a kid, and had to laugh at the way the author deliberately replaced “fucking” with “festering”, etc. The novel wasn’t even geared toward children or young adults – it was simply the particular franchise, as if using those words in Star Wars was totally unacceptable. (Honestly, this never worked for me. If Han Solo can’t curse, what’s the point? Oh, this is a “family” novel or something?) Keeping this in mind, I endeavor to keep my own writing from sounding cartoonish or too salty – somewhere in the middle so it’s honest.
I’ve struggled with this question since college, when a teacher was going over my first draft of a short nonfiction piece. I had written that the character “swore”. My teacher told me it would be more powerful if I actually wrote the swear word, which happened to be – you guessed it – the F-bomb. I think the teacher was a little surprised when he read the final draft… :)
Jessica, that sounds like a perfect example of “show, don’t tell.” :)
Actually, my main characters in all my books rarely if ever swear and that’s just how it turns out to work out – unlike me, who even though a little woman can swear like a big ole burly manly man – toss back a vodka – wrestle a bear; okay, no bear wrestling cause that would just be stupid. Where was I? . . . oh yeah – cussing in novels.
Though my main characters rarely or never cuss, other characters do. In the latest book, for the first time, I use the big one – the MF one, and believe me, I hesitated over it after I’d written it — but since that hesitation came AFTER I’d written “Kitty-cat got your tongue, you ugly half-breed m***** f*****?,” I knew this character would naturally say that, just like that – when I tried to take it out, it just didn’t seem right to. So it stays.
One of my other books, which are kind of gentle all around, but one of the characters says GD a lot – if anyone is offended by that, too GD bad. Don’t read the books if you are that sensitive and afraid of damnation on your head. Dang.
That’s just how I feel. However, I don’t write anything gratuitously – it has to be natural, real. It would be unnatural, unreal, if I never had a cuss word in there somewhere by someone.
A funny and thoughtful piece. Thanks, Keith. As I finish revisions to my WIP, I think about all the ways I’m probably going to offend readers. No F bombs for me. This is women’s historical fiction set in the Deep South of 1900, but plenty of other questions. For example, how to handle sex scenes. Do I start with a collar unbuttoned and then let the lens blur to accompanying and appreciative murmurs or pull out a biology book for all the correct anatomical references? (Note, I said women’s historical fiction, not historical romance…) And since the book is set in the Deep South, how does a “white girl” like me handle racial labels? The solution, as you have said, is be true to your characters and the time period and be ready for reaction. Of course, having Amazon reviews would mean I’ve been published!
This is a good post. As a Christian, sometimes I’m offended moire by swearing than the F-bomb, except when it’s way over used. In some books, it’s organic, the character only uses it once or twice, and those don’t bother me at all. I find it strange but true.
So I think it’s not so much the word but the usage.Like salt, sprinkled when and where needed, it isn’t overpowering. But a bad cook can ruin a dish. ‘Nuff said.
OMG, LOL. Actually in my prepublished WIP (Why I’m POed), the YA characters are Irish, and use one Irish version of fucked…fecked.
When you hear an the Irish accent saying fucked–fooked, it is charming.
But I’m sticking with fecked because it just doesn’t seem right for my MCs to be using the other term. Even though I myself use it too often, and don’t even live in NYC.
My feelings go deep on this. I will not restrict my stories or characters in order to align with any morality other than their own. Words are restraint enough!
First of all, it doesn’t matter what we say or how we talk, damn it, it’s about our characters in our books. That’s what this is all about, right? The most important thing is to be true to our characters. The dialogue has to be real. If we remember that, no worries.
I used to apologize to my beta readers and say things like, there’s some sex, or, I hope you’re not offended by language. I don’t do that anymore. I would be remiss to write a book without sex or language in a realistic portrayal of …well, real life.
Keith, thank you for this post. It’s a good one. I’m reminded of a writing group meeting. This fellow was writing about a bad dude who was threatening a girl. He wrote something like, ‘you’d better come out of there if you know what’s good for you’. I suggested that ‘get out here now, bitch’ might be more appropriate. The writer said, I could never say that. I told him, ‘you’re not, your character is.’
Consider your storyline and be prepared to walk the walk and talk the talk.
I submitted my manuscript to my editor and was asked to remove all the f bombs. My heroine is a cop surrounded by criminals and other policemen. I did it, but they sound off.
What does it say about me that I just purchased his book based solely on the promise of profanity? ;-)
This is so timely for me, Keith. My character has a potty mouth sometimes. Some occasions simply warrant an f-bomb, not a gee-whiz.
Just yesterday my ms won a contest and my entry was posted on the official contest website. A Christian-based website. Oops. My work was “edited for content” before being displayed so it would not offend, so I had the opportunity to read it sans swearing. While some passages lacked my intended punch, I did notice other spots where a toned down word could slide in without much change in my character’s consistency.
But a couple of the f-bombs and g-ds are going back in. I’m just thrilled the judges were able to overlook my offensive language, which I probably should have toned down had I paid more attention to my audience. Lesson learned.
Interesting post, Keith! The PMI for my novels is probably off the scale, and my readers’ reactions have been interesting. I’ve written a “risky” (from a marketing standpoint) main character: a middle-aged woman who swears violently and creatively under stress and *gasp* isn’t ashamed of her sexuality.
I wrote the first books with no intention of ever selling them; they were just for my own satisfaction. When I decided to self-publish, I left the language as it was because it was authentic. That means lots of F-bombs and yes, even one instance of the C-word.
However, I deliberately tried to manage my readers’ expectations. I chose black covers and the visual theme of the series is a woman with a gun. The back cover copy of the first book, ‘Never Say Spy’, begins “Despite her penchant for weapons and ripe language, Aydan Kelly’s resumé reads ‘bookkeeper’, not ‘badass’”, and the cover shows a woman with a gun and a dead man. So before they even open the book, readers know not to expect G-rated language.
I made ‘Never Say Spy’ free in February, fully expecting a load of critical reviews because of the language and forthright attitude to sex. To my shock, the book shot up to the Kindle top 100 free in Suspense, and it’s stayed there ever since. Maybe it’s too soon to tell, but of the 70+ reviews it’s had so far, only one or two have complained about offensive language. Never Say Spy’s overall Amazon rating is 4+ stars, and readers have dropped by my website to tell me how much they enjoyed the honesty of the character. Several have specifically complimented me on her language – they seem to get a particular kick out of “snot-gobbling fuck-pig”. Go figure. :-) These people have all gone on to read the entire series (6 books, with a 7th on the way), and sales have been far better than I expected.
Maybe the truly uptight people haven’t found my books yet, but I do have skin in the game, and so far I’m glad I didn’t gut my characters to try to please everybody. Time will tell…
Great post, great comments.
Let me quote Will Smith’s grandmother who refused to allow any profanity in her home. She exhorted Will to use his dictionary and his imagination to come up with alternatives.
There are times, absolutely, when only profanity will do – and hang the consequences. But there are LOTS of other times when profanity in books, just like in real life, is the default. It’s too easy. It’s a habit. It’s predictable.
Let your characters be imaginative, expand their vocabularies.
Surprise me. Subvert my expectations.
That’s interesting.
I used to have a huge potty mouth, and then decided to break that habit. When it came time to write dialogue so many years laer, all those words were eagerly waiting to be used. I had to really stop and think with each potential situation, “Is it me that wants to use the word, or the character.” And each time I put a damn or shit on the page, I thought of all the potential angry readers… I left them, though. :)
I do have to say, I never used the F-bomb much, even at the height of my sailor talk. I’m waiting for a character to want to use it, because I’m wondering if I’ll censor them. I hope not.
I had a friend recommend reading a Harlan Coban novel. Partway though I sensed something was wrong, but couldn’t place it. I got to a part where in dialogue, his character had to say ‘Fuck’ and there was no other way he, as a writer, could go with it.
What was printed was “F*#!” I couldn’t believe it. Man, if you’re going to be true to your character, then just be honest and say it. Either that, or don’t make up that character!
I put the book down and went the fuck to sleep.
Even the title of this post–“Talk Dirty to Me”–seems to indicate that there are certain words that people shouldn’t use. I don’t agree. If it’s appropriate for your character, use it. And I can’t be concerned with anal-retentive individuals who complain about their use when appropriate.
On the other hand, I am concerned about what my characters DO in my novels and how I describe what they’re doing. How can I describe a steamy scene (in bed, on a beach, in a field), a rape scene or a woman giving birth and not have the Amazon police call it x-rated? How far can a writer go? Is there anyone who has an answer to this question?
My characters get to decide which words they find appropriate to use. My work in progress is an erotic romance about archaeologists on a dig in Ireland, so you bet your ass the colorful, juicy words fly. My main male character uses fuck primarily in times of great emotion — anger, frustration, passion — while the female character, his lover, uses it primarily in the bedroom to enhance their lovin’ activities (nothing beats a well-placed, low-groaning, soul-stripping “fuck me”).
Anyone here remember the movie Kuffs? It was labeled PG13, so they bleeped out all uses of the F word except one — I guess one was all they could slide past the rating system. You couldn’t hear all the others, but you knew exactly what the character was saying. When you finally heard THE ONE, it was powerful. Needed.
effing great post, Keith! You can talk dirty to me anytime.
Sophia Ryan
–She Likes It Irish
–In The Bad Boy’s Bed
Wow, great post. In writing, I think moderation is key to not offending. A character does not have to say the f-word on every other page for the reader to get the picture. But if the character must be coarse and offensive, I’d be careful not to overdo it. I don’t tolerate that sort of thing in real life and certainly would not tolerate it in what I read.
Made me laugh out loud.
As a writer and a reader, sometimes you just gotta cuss.
Take Lulu or Stephanie in Janet Evanovich’s Stephanie Plum Novels, they both cuss like sailors and her books sell a zillion copies.
My vote, gratuitous cussing – boring. Cussing when a bad guy is flying after you with a loaded gun, a ten foot chain link fence six feet stands between you and freedom – necessary.
Some of this discussion goes to genre expectations in that Women’s fiction–at least according to the novels I’ve read–tends to be more mannerly. That said, there will be people who are offended by “coarse” language and gritty themes when they’ve signed up for dark thrillers. Go read Gillian Flynn’s comments for Gone Girl, because the softer sex ain’t supposed to be evil and manipulative, dontcha know?
If a given book attracts the right audience in every other respect, and then they won’t read the book because of an f-bomb, I have to wonder if they would have liked it anyway. To me, grittiness and realism is part of an author’s voice; it can be smoothed or modulated only so much before becoming unrecognizable.
I’d love to know the actual sales data. (I’m sure you would too.) What percent of people don’t read a profanity-inclusive book who might have otherwise? When is reader contempt the driver of sales, and can that make up for the vocal objectors? I don’t know, and I have no skin in the game, but I’d love true facts. ;)
Jan, I don’t know sales data. But I have definitely run into hurdles when trying to market my book. Certain book-review blogs and online book clubs are pretty specific about what they are looking for, and will ask you to identify any potentially offensive components of your book, whether it’s language, sex, violence, drug use, etc. As a result, I’ve had to self-disqualify my work from a few of these (and having read my book, you know that it’s not particularly edgy or gritty).
The thing is, they have every right to do so, if they’re targeting a certain demographic and trying to meet an expectation for a certain kind of reading experience.
The upside of this is that it helps you identify marketing channels that will not be useful to you. Nothing worse than putting money and energy into a marketing effort that ends up turning people off instead of on.
Good info to have about the book clubs, Keith. It’s probably not relevant to me, but still important. Thanks.
When Amazon cites “Go the F**k to Sleep” by Adam Mansbach and Ricardo Cortés (2011) as a best seller, they condone the word. What chickenshit their police are if they tell an author not to use it! And there is even a therapy, held in week long sessions in Italy by the couple that wrote “F**K It Therapy: The Profane Way to Profound Happiness.” ITS NOT A BOMB ANYMORE. Its a common and definitive expression that’s cathartic. Telling.
I’m so glad you wrote this post, Keith.
I feel like I have more to say as a reader than a writer on this topic. I love a dark, gritty, realistic crime novel, but they’re aren’t enough published in a year to keep me in reading material for a month so I delve into the entire crime genre, as it were. I almost never stop reading a novel before the end, but in the few cases where I couldn’t read any farther, it was because the dialogue was so awkward and sanitized. I can’t believe that a serial killer with 40+ female victims doesn’t use derogatory words for women. There’s always the case of the “gentleman” or “lady” criminal (Joe Hill’s Charlie Manx comes to mind), but that comes with the characterization as well.
My thoughts were expressed in The Great F-Bomb Debate of 2010
Gee folks, it’s 2013 and we’re still cow-towing to moralizing bluenoses and using the term “potty mouth” to describe our imagined offenses against this group which thinks nothing of bathing in blood washing out of their televisions every night yet want nothing to do with certain words? I say Fuck ’em all.
Worrying about what these people might think is like harkening back to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. In the larger picture they are irrelevant, and we should make sure they stay that way by not honoring their backward behavior.
Wow! 15 times! Out of how many words?
I adored this article. Maybe because my characters can be “colorful” when the story permits.
Thanks for your fun and humorous insight.
It seems most writers here support letting their characters speak ‘potty’ as the character and situation warrant. Having just taken the test on my last ms, (a fun task, thanks) I found a few more than I expected, but all in dialogue and in extreme moments.
I love what Donald points out about killing a pet being more inflammatory than almost any other event, and this in a world of media and reality where death of humans by any means approaches religious fervor. I feel nothing is off the table if in pursuit of revealing the world and characters in the novel, particularly if the work has morality as its backbone. Though I am chastised in advance of publication for mine, I’ll stick to my . . . er, expletives.
Let’s start with the fact that I was in the army for 12 years and one war. I don’t swear too much, and I try very hard not to do it in public. It usually only turns up because I’ve banged a body part and it hurts!
I also don’t use profanity much in my stories, and never the f bomb. If I put a word in, I think about it for a while and ask myself what it adds to the story. Often, it ends up coming out because if I can’t tell the story without using the profanity to convey basic stuff, then something is wrong with my writing. I think if I were doing a scene like the one where Hawkeye of MASH uses a particular phrase the only time on the series, I would still think about it and try to find a better way.
Linda — been rifling my brain to remember what Hawkeye said only one time. Help please! I know he tells Radar, “The hell with you.” But that’s pretty benign. Sophia
It was the episode where Hawkeye was trying to save a pregnant woman who was the enemy. The South Koreans were going to take her out and shoot her. He called the South Korean officer “You SOB!”
yes, I do remember that. thanks!
I was similarly surprised by the sensitivity of some people. I got one glowing review, with a caveat that I had thrown the F-bomb all over. What? I remembered once, but I was pretty sure that was it. And in that case, I had used it to paint the culprit as a nasty piece of work. Well I pulled up my manuscript and did a word search. There were four occurrences of the f-word. More than I remembered, but still not what I would call thrown all over. I no longer use the f-word and I don’t believe my characterization suffers. The f-word is too easy. With a little thought, I can use more creative dialogue to accomplish the same purpose.
Being from where I’m from, I wouldn’t doubt that my manuscript has dropped considerably more F/A/G as well as XYZ-bombs then most of the average working manuscripts out there. Not so much because of where I’m from, but because the main characters are from where I’m from. I am self-taught and one of the best pieces of advice out there for the clueless (like I once was) is be true to the characters. Since my central characters are 1. a young streetwise and bitter single mom practically mad at the world, and 2. An ex-street guy in a constant battle between his morals and his mistake of a marriage to a woman with a bad attitude, there is a constant need for realistic flavor in their dialogue and/or free-flying thoughts. So much so that it worried even me (and this is where I restrain from admitting to any heavy-handed seasoning in my own daily language). But a strange thing happened on the way to point B from point A. Seemingly without any effort from me, the female character matured and began attempting to correct her faults, not just for herself, but because others brought it to her attention…made her see herself…added to the story.
A friend and ex-lyricist-turned-author (who deserves all credit for me attempting to write professionally) once told me this of his fiance’s opinion of his female character’s dialogue: “That isn’t what a woman would say. That’s what a man would make a woman say!” I never forgot that, because he admitted to forcing it.
I think that if your writing is not genuine, there are worse things than a few complaints about your story’s language. I think that most prefer genuine, and the one’s that are easily offended can go back to watching CSI reruns.
As a publisher and a father I think the use of profanity shows several things about a person. You aren’t going to want to hear this but oh well.
I think it shows a persons lack of class, lack of ability to write well thought out sentences and descriptions and lack of character to name a few. Anyone who can’t communicate without using F this or F that should not be writing. I mean really… us of slang is one thing but think about what that word is really describing and then tell me one good reason it should be used.
I have heard people use it so haphazardly that it makes me wonder if they have some form of turrets.
Come on people, you can do better than that.
Hi Mike – thanks for taking the time to share your opinions. I respect your views, but want to examine a few of the claims you make.
1) “I think it shows a person’s lack of class” – I won’t argue this for a minute. There are plenty of folks who probably wouldn’t consider me a classy guy. But here’s a question: is there a reason that only a certain class of person can be a writer? Or a fictional character? Or even a reader? If everything we write is only about one type (or class) of person, and is targeted at only that type of person, where does that leave everybody else? To me this is a case of why we have so many different flavors of ice cream. Different people like different stuff.
2) “I think it shows a person’s lack of ability to write well thought out sentences and description” – l don’t follow the logic. Just because I’m not classy, does that mean I’m incapable of expressing myself clearly? I’ve got a master’s degree in business, and have put plenty of time into studying the craft, and I earn a decent living writing speeches and business messaging for top level executives. My affinity for saying “fuck” has not seemed to impact my ability to write in a wide variety of professional contexts. (Nor have I ever dropped the F bomb in a corporate PowerPoint presentation.)
This brings up another point: I’ve seen people call the use of profanity “lazy,” as if the writer put no thought into their choice of words. Have you considered the notion that the writer may have put a LOT of thought into their word choices? Speaking for myself, I only write these words when I feel they are an essential way to capture a character, a voice, or a behavior. Believe it or not, I’m not writing them because I don’t have a thesaurus handy; nor would I assume that was why other writers used such language.
3) “Anyone who can’t communicate without using F this or F that should not be writing” – This seems a bit extreme. There are a lot of fine, very significant authors whose works you’ve just dismissed – in addition to insignificant ones like me. Again, should we really be prevented from the act of writing? Or should discerning readers simply avoid the work of such potty-mouthed authors? The former seems awfully restrictive, while the latter focuses more on the judgment of the individual, which is something that I prize very dearly, and I suspect you do, too.
I’m not trying to prove you wrong so much as to ask you to consider some other perspectives. Should you avoid reading authors whose work you consider profane? Absolutely, since their work offends you. But can you really make a logical case that suggests these writers A) cannot think clearly, and B) should not even be allowed to pick up a pen or sit at a keyboard?
Again, I call on the ice cream metaphor. Don’t like chocolate? No problem. Eat vanilla. Or butter pecan. But I don’t think it’s fair to deny people the right to create chocolate ice cream, simply because you’re not a fan.
Again, thanks for writing, and for expressing your views in a civil way.
I would comment, but Keith has said it perfectly.
I am from a generation that swears often. And I really don’t think it says anything much about me as a person if my speech or writing is peppered with the occasional f-bomb.
Thank you, Jenn, and yes, Kieth said it better (heck, classier) than I would’ve responded to that post.
In my humble opinion (and with a poorly imitated New York accent), We’re talkin’ fiction, hiyah (here)! If you can’t step out of (or get over) yourself as a person of morals to create, how talented are you? No, better yet, how talented would you like to be?
I am from a poor background. Shouldn’t my writing, like my life, reflect advancement, improvement, and broaden my thinking?
I don’t think that wanting everything and everybody to be like me or believe what I believe does that.
Jenn nailed it. Writing—especially when done well—helps take us to places we may not visit and/or experience things we not have otherwise, and is CERTAINLY not a complete reflection of who we are.
Thanks again
An interesting post and a real dilemma for those of us writing for younger readers, who do – as we know – swear in real life.
I would add to the discussion that what is considered offensive is also culturally and personally determined. I, for one, am much more offended by blasphemy (which is deeply offensive to someone’s faith, contemptuously reducing God to a curse-word), than by F-bombs, or any other swear words for that matter. I’m amazed that people who are offended by “damn” and “hell” (pretty mild in my lexicon) are quite ok with “God”, “Jesus Christ”, etc.
So in your PMI, I would give the F-word a lower score and using religious swears a higher score. To the writer who argued that it’s ok to say “Jesus, Mary and Joseph”, I would say, “Nope.” But I know that there are people reading this comment saying, “Sayyy whhaattt?!”
Now this is not to say that all offensive words (or material) should be banned from books – where would writers be if we could only tell stories in vanilla? Of course certain characters at certain moments will use certain words. But I think the more you use them, the less impact they have and the lazier you get as a writer. A little goes a long way, I think.
I can so relate to this post! I had a character in my young adult sci-fi say the “f word,” but took it out because I thought I should. My critique partner called me out on it and said, “No way does this character say this. He’d use the f word here.” She was right, and I changed it back.
The book sold and is being published, f word and several God’s- name-in-vain offenses intact. Well, those and some other words too. You have to stay true to the story and the characters. I already know some people will take issue with it, but I didn’t write the book to appeal to the entire world. That would be boring. :)
I asked my editor if I should remove the few f-bombs in my novel.
Her response?
NO FUCKING WAY!
Thanks for that, Ms/Mrs Nathan,
Short, sweet, but Oooh so necessary for people [that want to get published] to hear.
Plus, like myself, many writers have only their blind research to go by, and it’s extremely conflicting. “Don’t do this, don’t do that…Oh, but you have to grab’em from page 1!”
“Molly” rejected (but liked) my mentor’s manuscript because it was too nice. Said she wouldn’t be able to sell it.
I’m late to the party, but great post.
Writing is both an art and a business, so I think it makes finding that balance right. When writing, we want to tell a story people are going to enjoy, and that may sometimes mean toning it down. That doesn’t mean not being true to character, but it does mean asking yourself if you’re enjoying some writerly indulgence or being true.
Again, great post.
Hm-m. Very thought-provoking, this balance between trueness and rudeness (to some).
I don’t like the f-bomb and I am frequently offended when I hear it. In my real job, that word, and other swearing, is not tolerated and I agree that they should not be. It comes with the territory of the job. I have to admit that I let it slip sometimes in non-job settings and am always sorry when I do. There are always other ways venting.
But, yes, I have put it in the mouth of a minor character who is a soldier. I have taken God’s name in vain on the lips of other characters because it fit. But, these usages are not crucial to the characters. And, I will have to ask myself if it is worth snapping some readers out of the story when they are offended by language. Does it really HAVE to be there? It wasn’t until Hemingway in “A Farewell to Arms” that the f-bomb was permitted in print and writers managed to get by before that. We make our decisions and deal.
Interesting topic! I’ve been struggling with this because I myself swear very rarely, and I’m a person of faith and can’t remember the last time I said “God” or “Jesus” without it being in the context of prayer.
But my characters aren’t people of faith–or at least not the level I am, so they don’t have my worldview. They don’t say “darn” or “crud” or “too bad.” They swear. They use “God” and “Jesus” in vain, because, well, they would.
I probably will go back and strip out all the ones I feel I can–I’ve done a bit of that already, but in the end, yeah, I go for truth in characterization.
Hope this helps, though I can’t say how many editors know this slang (it may just be a Southern Cal valley girl thing): Being a person of faith also, I’ve seen and now use the spelling, GAWD, instead of the other.
Less than actual “dirty” words, I’m concerned about vivid or graphic sex scenes. Not the more rape-y types as previously mentioned, but standard, straightforward consensual sex between beings of legal age, whatever their planet or plane of origin.
My concern isn’t so much for not offending people. As Keith mentioned, “Fuck ’em.” No, my angst in this department is what my friends and family will see when they get to a more lurid, gropey, or otherwise moist scene of wonton passion.
I know for a fact that my parents, siblings, and extended family members read my work. I know for a fact that my young kids (currently 9, 5, and 3) will probably check out the Old Man’s work at some point.
Describing how this went there, that part was tugged thus, and just how things slam together in rapid ecstasy in picture-real detail would just embarrass the living shit out of me at Thanksgiving and Christmas.
I tend to leave a lot to the imagination for my written grope sessions.
LOL – my number would be off the charts!
In my Imp series, the main character is a demon. She curses pretty regularly, dropping the F bomb in casual conversation, especially with other demons. Here’s the hitch though – demons are the only beings that curse in the novels. Humans, werewolves, angels (of course) don’t. Ever.
I’d expected to get some bad reviews about the profanity, and I’m sure I eventually will, but right now they’ve all been positive. Maybe because some cursing is expected in UF/CF? Maybe because of the character involved? No idea. I do know I had an editor that refused to edit my books due to the profanity (although she loved how they were written). So I know some people will be put off.
If it’s true to the character, if it’s necessary in the scene, then I’d let it fly.
I sent this to my facebook page, asking for my readers’ opinions. We’ll see what happens.
Personally, I don’t mind some cussing, even the f word; but I do strongly object to taking the Lord’s name in vain. I understand a lot do, but there’s probably just as many who don’t. It depends on the kind of people you’re around. I had some seedy patients while I nursed, but many of them showed me respect by watching their language around me, including those in prison.
My first novel has a few cuss words because it has an escaped con. No swearing of the Lord’s name. You have Shakespeare as your friend; well, I have God as mine. He’s busy enough without all those interruptions hearing his name. If you’ve ever had children, you might understand how many days I wanted to change my name from “Mommy.” (I loved my sons, but some days 3 boys could wear our Super Woman.) Consider when you are working on your writing and someone calls your name. That single moment of distraction breaks your flow. How many times a minute do you think God hears his name? How’s He supposed to get anything done? Luckily there were no distractions when He was creating the world, or it still might not be done.
Oh, talk about diversity, I’ll do a blog on the word ‘up’. You should see how diverse that word is! I was surprised when I read it.
1. I just hope that posts like this one will help correct the (in my experience, erroneous) claims of people who think that those of us who include profanity or sex in our books do so “just to sell books.” I encounter plenty of writers who contemplate self-censorship so that their books will be more widely available. But I can’t recall ever hearing a writer ask, “Should I throw in an F-bomb here just to sell books?”
2. “Week after week, the characters in these shows shoot, stab, rape, molest, kidnap, dismember, torture, decapitate … But whatever you do, please don’t say “shit.” Because that’s just plain offensive.
I’m sorry, but to me, this kind of thinking defies all logic.”
I have yet to encounter anyone who can explain it. As Donald Maass points out, American audiences are far more tolerant of violence than of sex or profanity. This makes no sense to me. Violence hurts and kills. Profanity is just another way of saying, “I’m angry!” (except where people have incorporated it into their vocabularies to the extent that it’s just another word. I remember a guy in high school who used the F word in EVERY sentence. It was obviously just white noise to him.)
3. It is impossible to write a book that nobody will object to. Somebody somewhere can always find something not to like.
Interesting point about the high school kid.
In a past discussion (basically, it was “old people” vs tomorrow’s future on the topic of how they speak these days), one young lad made the statement, “Yeah, but see, the way we use it [a word not even mentioned here] and how much it’s used, it lost its power. We desensitized it so it don’t mean nuttin’ to us!”
Despite this being a cop-out attitude, and frankly, an excuse to be too lazy to accept the responsibility of self-improvement (for fear of cutting into one’s video game time), this is the direction we’re going in. Has anyone here longed for the days when movies sported great writing consistently, and weren’t catering mostly to 16 through 24 year olds? …or music, for that matter?
Fortunately, for the fabric of this great country, their attitude extends to racism…so I’m okay with it.