What Should You Expect from a Freelance Editor? (A Timely Debate)
By Therese Walsh | June 4, 2013 |
photo by Flickr’s ClaraDon
Today I’m going to interrupt my “Notes from a Desk” series to focus on editing, in part because editing is what’s on my mind right now; I’m thick in copy edits. So it was no wonder when a WU query about reviewing a new book on the topic of editing caught my eye, and I downloaded said book, and I started to read. And it was no wonder that when that same book became the topic of an online debate, that I took notice and joined in.
The Editor’s Eye: A Practical Guide to Transforming Your Book from Good to Great was written by author/editor Stacy Ennis, and was the recent subject of a guest post on Jane Friedman’s website. The post, 5 Ways to Find the Right Freelance Book Editor, included advice on gauging the qualifications and experience of your potential editor, along with lists of questions to ask the editor and her former clients.
It was that last part about asking questions that caught the attention of the Writer Unboxed Facebook group, after one of our members (hey, Carmel Lile) shared the link to Stacy Ennis’s article. The debate began–lively and respectful, like 99% of the debates in the WU FB group.
One the one hand: Was it asking too much of an editor to answer a slew of time-consuming questions from a client who may not even be the right fit for them? Wouldn’t it be more telling to simply edit a set number of sample pages and then allow both parties to judge compatibility based upon that? As for asking questions of an editor’s prior clients, wasn’t that an unnecessary invasion of privacy for those clients when a previously published testimonial might be adequate? And wasn’t it unprofessional for an editor to give out this information in any event?
On the other hand: Wasn’t it fair for a writer to ask an editor a handful of questions when that writer would be paying a substantial sum of money for that person’s services? Wasn’t this process much like hiring any provider–even a physician–and wasn’t a Q&A simply due diligence? Was it truly too much to ask to converse with a willing former client, to get his/her take on that editor’s style, work ethic, and receive the former client’s opinion privately rather than via a carefully crafted website testimonial?
Full disclosure: I came down on the side of “the other hand,” and said I wouldn’t hire a freelance editor who wasn’t willing to answer questions and provide referrals. But what I really wanted was to hear back from author/editor Stacy Ennis. What would she say about all of this? Had she painted an idealistic picture in her book? Was there a shade of gray we hadn’t considered in the debate?
I reached out to Stacy, and she graciously agreed to step in and–after reading through the debate–offer some additional thoughts. She wrote:
The majority of the authors I work with have dreamed of their books for years—some even since they were young. Writing and publishing a book is often the fulfillment of a lifelong dream. While this isn’t true 100 percent of the time, writing a book represents a major life achievement for most authors.
So, when writers take their precious manuscripts and look for an editor to help them make their dream of publication a reality, it can be an incredibly scary process. Not only are they often clueless about publishing, but they usually don’t know the first thing about finding, hiring, and working with an editor. When they finally get a referral or find an editor through an editor’s association or online search, they’re usually at a loss for how to proceed. This can result in a poor author-editor match or dissatisfied parties on both sides.
I believe this relationship—between author and editor—is the most important part of the book-writing process. My advice to authors is to make sure they find the right editor, not just a good one. Editors’ specialties vary widely, as do their personalities. And I would argue that personality is as important as skill level and expertise. The better the partnership between the author and editor—the better they work together—the better the book will be. On top of that, writers are sometimes investing thousands of dollars into editorial services.
[pullquote]I believe this relationship—between author and editor—is the most important part of the book-writing process. My advice to authors is to make sure they find the right editor, not just a good one. [/pullquote]
When you consider these points, doesn’t it make sense that editors should be willing and able to provide references? If you’re a qualified professional editor, shouldn’t you have references of some kind?
Now, a few people brought up privacy issues. I would never, ever give out a client’s name or contact information without first asking permission. You’ll notice, too, that my guest post said, “Be wary of any editors who aren’t willing to provide a reference, even if it’s just a written recommendation from a client.” There’s some wiggle room. But, editors, you need recommendations of some kind.
Let’s face it: There are bad editors out there. Writers need a way to make sure they’re placing their babies (manuscripts) in good hands.
Of note, a few people [in the WU FB group debate] mentioned the difference between developmental editing, substantive editing, copyediting, and proofreading. This is a great point and something I
discuss in detail in The Editor’s Eye. Obviously, the process for selecting a developmental editor will be a lot more involved than choosing a proofreader, for example.
Just for comparison’s sake, since a few people brought up physicians: Before my daughter was born, my husband and I interviewed five different physicians of varying specialties. Most of the interviews were around 30 minutes long. All of the physicians were referred by friends or colleagues, so we had the opportunity to hear about their experiences with the physicians. I also researched each of them online before our interviews. Even with all of that effort, we ended up switching doctors when my daughter was two months old because the physician wasn’t the right fit for our family. If a similar situation happens during the editing process, it can cost writers more than just time—they can be out a lot of money, too. Worse yet, it can result in a not-so-strong book once it’s finally published.
Really, the vetting process goes both ways. The initial “meet and greet” is a time for authors and editors to decide if they’d like to continue a conversation about working together. Interviewing past clients—or, at the very least, reading written recommendations—is a way for authors to make sure they’re making the right choice for their books.
We’d like to hear what you think about this issue. Have you ever hired a freelance editor? What was that process like for you? Did you ask questions, interview former clients? Did you meet with resistance? Do you think in this, The Information Age, editors and clients both should be willing to provide additional answers when asked, or have we hit a limit and become too entitled? If you’re an editor, what are your boundaries and why?
And a big thanks to Stacy Ennis–book and magazine editor, writer, coach and speaker, for being with us today. You can learn more about her, her services, and her excellent book, The Editor’s Eye, on her website.
Write on, everyone. I’ll be editing.
Therese Walsh (she/her) co-founded Writer Unboxed in 2006 and is the site’s editorial director. She was the editor of WU’s only book, Author in Progress, and runs the Writer Unboxed UnConference.
Her second novel, The Moon Sisters, received starred reviews and was named one of the best books of the year by Library Journal and Book Riot.
Learn more about Therese on her website, and sign up for her newsletter to be among the first to hear about any new projects.
I have not hired a freelance editor. However, I am definitely on the ‘on the other hand’ side. And, if I were a freelancer of any kind–writer, editor, housepainter, whatever–I’d ask clients after the job was done if I could use them as a reference. It’s just good business sense.
As a total newbie, I got lucky finding a freelance editor. I entered my manuscript in a fiction contest. The contest included a fee of forty bucks, which I learned later was a no-no. But this was one exception. The fee covered 75 pages of plot review and 10 pages of full line edits. Which proved to be a really helpful in getting my first chapter quite sparkly! Later, I decided to use the full editing service and the reading fee was waived. I already knew I liked the editor (and she was tough!) In the end, I was quite satisfied with the service and know my manuscript is way more polished than before.
As a freelance editor myself, I couldn’t agree more with what is said in this article. Providing references is essential as well as samples of work to demonstrate how you operate. It’s unprofessional not to. In addition, I like that she points out how important the relationship piece is–I always view pages and/or query as well as talk with my clients before I agree to take on a project. Once I’ve reviewed a manuscript, I write up an extensive editorial letter and then work with the writer to hash out plot issues either via email, chat, or phone. That’s a big part of the process. I’m appalled by some of the stories I hear from writers who have been taken advantage of! At any rate, great article, Therese!
I’m glad you enjoyed it, Heather. I haven’t heard too many stories of writers being taken advantage of, thank goodness, but I know it happens. That’s exactly why the interview process is so critical.
I was rather surprised at the debate that followed Stacy’s post—not really one I expected.
When Stacy says, “Let’s face it: There are bad editors out there,” that provides the No. 1 reason every author should feel 100% OK asking questions and seeking referrals/recommendations.
The sad truth is that the rise in e-publishing/self-publishing and the disruption of the publishing industry has produced many people who are looking to profit from it. Some people are honest and transparent about their skills and experience; others are not. I don’t mean for authors to approach the process out of fear or paranoia, but please—do approach it with shrewdness.
I was a little surprised, too, Jane. I actually enjoyed reading both sides of the debate. It’s fun to see people get so passionate about what they do! Plus, the back and forth was incredibly respectful, as Therese pointed out, which I don’t see very often.
I absolutely agree with the idea of editors answering questions. Any person you hire should be willing to answer questions about what they do and spend a few minutes with you. If they’re not, then what kind of service will they give you after you’ve hired them? Caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) has survived several centuries for a reason.
I felt so strongly about my mentor and editor, Cathy Yardley (of Rock Your Writing) that I wrote an essay extolling her virtues, which I am honored to have appeared in this space last fall. I agree with Stacy, that it’s all about the relationship. Having met in the WU facebook group, Cathy and I clicked before I hired her. Our styles and backgrounds are different, but those differences (e.g. she’s a plotter, I’m a pantser) tend to sync well when brought to bear on my work.
I did not ask for a sample, although (I believe) she offers them. As I said on the WU group thread, I do not mind at all having her ask me for testimonials or referrals. We have become each other’s advocate. It’s a natural part of our relationship.
I realize I was lucky when I sent her that first manuscript, and grew exponentially from the experience. But my good fortune extends so far beyond one successful full-manuscript critique. It’s become an ongoing coaching relationship, and I benefit from it to this day. She has become an integral part of my writing journey. And I am blessed by it.
Great article, T! Thanks for bringing in Stacy’s wise perspective.
Yes, the relationship is so important! That’s what I love about editing. If it were just about marking up a manuscript and moving on to the next project, I would have picked a completely different profession.
Wonderful food for thought. Thanks to all who added input to this post.
I’m glad my post sparked the debate, but I got a little lost because everyone was coming from such different perspectives. :o)
When the time comes that I am looking for someone to do a substantive edit of my manuscript, it will be, as Stacy says, incredibly scary. I really hope to find someone whose opinion I value and who values my work. It seems the only way to do that is to talk personally with each editor and then get feedback from people she has worked with. It’s a delicate but necessary process.
Hiring a freelance editor was the best thing I ever did. I knew there was something wrong with my MS. My agent knew there was something wrong. We even had a fair idea of what it was. But we couldn’t figure out how to fix it.
The editor I hired was someone I had known online for a long time. I knew her credentials, knew some of the books she’d edited.
The one thing I don’t see mentioned in a lot of freelance editor things is genre specialty, but it’s something I’d add to the list. I’ve written both romance and mystery and they have different developmental concerns. You want an editor who can understand those concerns and help you see where you go off the rails.
So since this MS was romantic suspense, I hired someone with experience in that genre. And once she was done ripping it apart, and I was done putting it back together, we had a MS we could sell. It comes out in November from Penguin’s InterMix imprint, which never would have happened without my editor!
I am a medical copy editor by occupation and a fiction author and for both my novels (and short stories) I hired developmental editors, copy editors, proofreaders. As much as I can produce fairly clean copy, I still need the objective and professional eyes of these editors and proofreaders because I really can’t see the flaws and weaknesses in my own stories. I’m too close to the bone as the saying goes.
I hired my first fiction editor through an editing agency and the editor (highly recommended with 5-star ratings) was a complete mismatch for me and for my story. I was so frustrated. So, the agency gave me another editor and it all went wonderfully. So, keep in mind references can be deceiving too.
I think it’s fair to require sample edits. I ask my clients for a sample of their work (10 pages) and I edit 3-4 pages for them. This way both writer and editor get a sense of each other, and more importantly, the specific work. I think this heightens the level of success and really puts the work itself center stage.
Any decent editor is going to cost a lot of money. I’ve never found one that would edit a good MS for less than several hundred dollars, but usually closer to a thousand, minimum, so it’s a big investment and should be approached accordingly.
The last one I hired actually included in his comments his philosophical reactions to (i.e. whether he disagreed or agreed with) my content! Ex: “I don’t agree! I think older people should….” or “This is why we need a Democrat in office.”
It was shocking to me, and I wondered: if there’s a handbook on how to be a good editor, one of the top rules should be, edit objectively. Don’t debate your client’s position on something, only whether or not the content is presented in a way that the reader will understand, react to, feel, etc. Maybe this sounds like a fine line, but I would definitely look to avoid that in my next editor.
I have hired developmental editors several times. In all cases, they made changes that I agreed with and changes that I didn’t agree with. Both were useful because it clarified, to me, what I feel strongly about and what I want my book to be. There is one benefit of editors that wasn’t mentioned in this post (I haven’t read the book yet), which is that editors can become real supporters. I had one editor introduce me to her agent. Another editor has gotten very involved helping me move forward (in other words, encouraging me long after the “contract” was up). For me, a major factor is the amount of enthusiasm the editor shows. It helps me do better work.
Hey, Laura,
I’ve found that the most effective editor/client happens when the clients usually take about 70% of what I suggest. I get suspicious of someone who does everything I say.
Disclosure: My wife Lisa Rector-Maass is an independent editor. She is interviewed on WU here:
https://staging-writerunboxed.kinsta.cloud/2008/08/22/interview-with-an-editor-lisa-rector-part-1/
With that out of the way, let me contribute an agent’s perspective. I see the results of authors’ work with independent editors in submissions.
When the author is committed and the editor is skilled, there can be dramatic improvement in a manuscript. What I do *not* see are writers going from raw newbie to ready-for-publication after one revision letter.
Why is that? Fiction is a highly complex art. There are many shifting variables to master. Furthermore, the bar for entry is set at a height that other professions would call excellence. Imagine getting a PhD just to get an internship. It’s something like that.
That said, I do see dedicated authors steadily (sometimes rapidly) improve and jump over the bar. Independent editors can be a big boost but let’s be clear: It’s the writer who leaps.
In other words, there’s more to working with an independent editor than asking the right questions and finding the right fit. As important as those are the writer’s willingness to learn.
For that reason I feel that the most effective independent editors are in a sense teachers…and the greatest benefit is gained by writers who are at heart students. [See yesterday’s discussion here on WU.]
A number of independent editors I know (including Lisa) have moved away from the traditional revision letter model of working to a face-to-face (or Skype-to-Skype) brainstorming model. What many writers need is not so much to tinker with their manuscripts as to learn higher levels of craft.
Professional level feedback and high level teaching are not that easy to come by. Indie editors, some writers organizations and a small cadre [ahem] of teachers of advanced fiction technique have stepped in to fill that need. I recommend using them all.
Most of all I suggest staying open, seeing your blind spots and reaching always to master those aspects of the art which are not easy and natural for you. Mentors you can find. Your standard of excellence, though, is one that only you can set.
I love that you say the revision letter (while there a place for it) is slow being surpassed by actual dialogue with the writer. The longer I write and think about its complexities, the more I see similarities in the process of being in a rehearsal room (my background is theatre). No director simply hands an actor a set of notes after each rehearsal. That comes very late in the game, usually close to dress rehearsal and opening night, when technical details become important because other elements (costumes, sets, lights) are merging with performance. Everything else before that is focused on understanding the vision and meaning through the playwright’s words, the character through the actor and the production through the director. These are not one, two, three (as I’ve written them) or hierarchical but intertwined and inseparable.
I’ve done content edits for over 200 books. I focus on editing within the author’s style and respecting the content. I am never upset when prospective clients want to talk about their projects and ask me questions about my work. It’s only fair that they learn up front what to expect for the money they are going to spend. Even more importantly, they deserve to ask whatever they need to be comfortable that I will treat their manuscript the way they want it to be treated. I sometimes have to draw the line where time is concerned. I usually offer an hour or a half hour of free consultation, depending on the project and the client.
I’ve hired 2 freelance editors. Both offered to edit about 20 pages for a nominal fee. I switched, frankly, because my former editor for my Blackthorne, Inc. series had quit working for the publisher and was starting a freelance business. We already knew each other, and she gives me a very good price because I was one of her first ‘outside’ clients, and she knows she’ll get a clean manuscript from me. Although I was satisfied with the first editor I hired, a friend sent her sample chapter and after taking her money, the editor provided very little help other than finding extra spaces and telling the writer that she didn’t think some of her character names would fly. But her reason for breaking things off was that she didn’t think she could do a fair edit because she wasn’t comfortable with the genre.
However, the author had made the genre clear at the outset, and was upset that the editor seemed to feel that she had the right to keep the initial fee because she did work on the pages. She ended up refunding the money, but it left a bad taste on both sides.
Given the editor’s time and the author’s financial investment, I definitely think both parties deserve to know as much as possible about what they’re getting into before they start.
Thanks to Therese and Stacy for this very informative post. I am a novelist who also provides developmental editing for novels and memoirs. I do think there should be a happy medium: authors should respect the editor’s time, but editors need to provide enough information so that the author can make an informed choice. And this, I feel, can include testimonials from other clients.
I’ve been on panels at writer’s conferences with other editors and it’s always interesting to hear how differently they all work. As for me, I always ask to read a brief synopsis and then edit the first five pages of the ms free of charge so the author can get an idea of what I provide. When I do a full ms critique I write an analysis and chapter by chapter report. My goal is to demonstrate how the writer can make revisions that will hopefully get her on the road to agent representation.
However, there are other approaches where editors will read the entire ms for free and then decide if it’s something they want to work with. And there are those who will do much more of the rewriting themselves, specializing in line editing. The author needs to get informed as to what she needs and wants.
I do agree with Mr. Maas that the ideal situation is when the editor is the teacher and the writer is the student. I learned a great deal from some wonderful developmental editors when I was on my road to publication, but that was partly because I was a very willing student. I wanted to make my novels the best they could be and with the help of these editors I did finally get published.
I’m here to learn, and today’s lesson is mighty tasty. Om num num
A great post and discussion. I definitely fall into the “on the other hand” side. Since money and a writer’s dream are involved, prospective editors, like any professionals, should help themselves and the clients by allowing scrutiny of their process.
Needing a teacher, I found a development editor who said straight out we would be doing a masters course, one on one, with the ms as course work. I prepared questions for my ‘free’ hour on the phone, but she interviewed me by asking everything about the story–a different approach, during which she showed all her cards, including potential costs.
Good, hard fun followed and I can’t wait to be in that position again. The learning never stops. Each sentence, character and story are by nature different and fresh, which is why we write, isn’t it?
Thank you Therese and Stacy. I was part of that lively debate and possibly opened up the question of, should one allow a stranger (possible client) to interview past and present clients? I want to clarify that the comments I made about excessive questions were about the referrals, not what one should ask a potential editor. I should further clarify, it’s not that references aren’t important, they are, and they should be sought and given. And that testimonials in and of themselves are not enough (the suggestion I gave was that they might be the obvious people to approach for a reference…though someone else pointed out that these clients might consider the testimonial a one-off, and not want to be bothered in the future). However, the analogy in this post of asking friends to refer a doctor is not the same as a doctor offering to allow a potential patient to interview former or existing patients. The main point I think I was trying to get across (and know that I failed) is this: the writer-editor is relationship is a two-way street.
A developmental editor (actually any editor, but mainly developmental) may be paid for their work, but it is also their time and creative energy that goes into helping the writer. It’s not only the writer’s creativity that’s at stake in this endeavour. And I don’t say this lightly. As a writer, I work very hard to put my vision down on paper in words I choose more carefully than almost anything else in life (apart from human relationships). I don’t want someone with less experience or creativity to come in and butcher my ideas or narrative voice for no good reason because we don’t have the same depth of vision. I do want someone who is greatly more experienced than me to teach me what I need to learn so that I can get as close to my vision as is humanly possible. This, in large part, is the reason I believe referrals are worth less than live communication (Skype or old fashioned telephone) and sample pages, before the relationship begins.
Having been a director who was interested in ensemble work with actors and designers, when writers approach me for help their story, I give my entire creative self to further their creative vision. Creativity is singular but it doesn’t happen in isolation. It’s an infinite process that drives each individual in myriad ways to arrive at the same end point: the realization of something that didn’t exist before.
I was happy to read that many editors are now moving towards brainstorming and face-to-face dialogue; in part I’m hope to hear directly what the writer really wants to convey; rather than relying on revision letters to reveal this subtle and sometimes elusive part of a writer’s inner self. This idea of face-to-face comes as close to the creative friction in the rehearsal process as I can imagine in the world of ink in white space.
Sorry for the typos.
Have to hand it to Stacy (the other hand, of course)—I can’t fathom why an editor worth her salt and semicolons would object to a potential client giving them a thorough vetting. I’ve edited a number of business books and several novels, and there was always a goodly amount of give and take on how the process would work, both in its mechanics and its personal exchange, prior to jumping in with the red pen. That’s valuable information for the editor as well, because that conversation on editing approach gives the editor a peek into the writer’s personality—suitability goes both ways.
If written testimonials weren’t adequate, I’d be willing to set up the contacts for a potential client to contact a former client, as long as it wouldn’t be a burdensome time imposition on the referral party. (And if they didn’t want the old client to pay for lunch.) Sample edits make a lot of sense too—I’ve offered short ones for free if the client didn’t engage my services, with a nominal charge if they did. Any pre-sample consultation is free. Tequila is extra.
I do admire Mr. Maas’ sense of the editor as mentor, and hope I have been at least half of that (a “ment”?) in my work with writers. Since I did such a woeful job of self-editing my first novel—crow has such a delicate flavor!—that I’ll definitely be engaging one for my newest. And I hope they are engaging too.
And now that I’ve misspelled Donald Maass’ name, I will be summarily drummed out of Edit Corps. Oh well, there’s always the circus…
I don’t understand why there is even a question here. Editors are professionals who charges fees for services, like many other professionals. No professional in any service business should be shocked/resistant to providing references upon request. Nor should any professional be offended by questions such as, “How do you usually work with clients?” or “Can you step me through the process?”
I’m so glad that this is a hot topic!
I have forty years in the business as a published writer and editor, and related work as well (these jobs overlap: that’s the thrill of freelancing). I have experience on both sides of the equation.
Affinity is crucial to the writer/editor relationship. Stacy is quite right that you want the *right* editor, not just a competent editor. Temperament counts. Some of my editorial colleagues I wouldn’t trust in the same room with my own WIP. In my writing career, I’ve suffered terrible editors and I’ve enjoyed wonderful editors. When I edit, I try to be the latter: open-minded to what the writer needs and is trying to do, flexible, kind, clear, helpful, objective. I make suggestions, not demands.
As a freelance editor, I will skim over a new manuscript to get a sense of the writer’s abilities, edit the first 5-10 pages as a sample of my work, bat a couple emails back and forth, send my resume, and chat on the phone for half an hour, all at no charge — if I think the prospective client is serious. If they’re keen to move forward, I’m happy to refer them to former clients (but surprisingly few ask). I also encourage them to talk to other editors and compare. Of course authors out shopping must know what they’re getting! This all takes a few unpaid hours, but I figure that’s the investment required of a freelancer. Sometimes my investment is lost, but more often I get the job.
With the rise of self-publishing, I’m seeing a new sort of author, one who is freshly made, doesn’t know the territory, but is determined to go for it anyway. Donald Maass nails it. Freelancing fiction editing has become coaching as well, and coaching adds time to the job. If that time is significant, either I have to draw a line, or charge for it.
I’m finding that money is the overwhelming consideration for most new writers. A developmental report is ideal as the first step. But it takes time and adds significant costs. Thus I’ve developed a flexible, fix-it-in-one-swoop approach — less than ideal, perhaps, but considerably more affordable.
In the old model, a few authors of brilliant talent were selected by publishing houses, and publishers paid for the editing. To be on a publisher’s roster I was interviewed, took editing tests, and every job was supervised by the production editor. That structure is still there, but self-publishing is changing the landscape rapidly. We’re all learning our way through these thickets.
I am a freelance developmental editor and I’ve answered a lot of questions most willingly—even those already answered at my website and my LinkedIn recommendations. Gotta say though that there’s one that bothers me, especially as a leading question: “How many authors have you edited into print?”
I realize that is the writer’s goal in hiring you to up her game, but publishing success demands diligence applied over the long haul. The writer must learn the industry, polish marketing and business writing skills, network extensively, and forge the kind of can-do attitude and inner resilience that can see you through what may be years of rejection. As a developmental editor, I can’t control any of that.
Reality is, getting an agent or receiving a traditional publication contract has always been for a select few. That’s one reason “the long haul” is effective—eventually, competition from debut authors with a commensurate level of increasing skill will drop away.
What I can do is help the writer develop those skills. In my experience, it is those who treasure this benefit—as opposed to those who are looking for the bottom line—who have what it takes to go the distance. And a warning: “going the distance” often means hiring me for another edit, since once a writer has made structural changes, it is possible that he’s unwittingly introduced new issues that must be addressed. So a better question you might ask is whether the editor offers a discount for repeat projects. Like any learning, it’s a process, and a writer’s dedication to it is key.
Kathryn, I would disagree with you to a certain extent. I worked on staff at a university press and as a freelance copy editor for another publisher. I would be pretty upset if I engaged someone who called themselves a “developmental editor” only to have them charge me thousands of dollars to tell me that I missing a comma on page 135.
There IS more to this than just copy editing, because a number of these books will never see an agent. They will be independently published.
On the other hand, despite the fact that I may have a manuscript that has been read by a number of individuals, I may want it read by someone with the connections to get me up the next rung of the ladder by being a person with connections with agents and editors at publishing houses.
So I think, as you and others point out, that with the changes in the publishing world, there is now a significant need for a person who can act as a one-on-one mentor. You can call them a developmental editor or a book doctor or whatever. One way or the other, those people should be very busy these days. And if they get you up that next rung, whatever it is, then it will be money well spent.
I’m glad to see you open this topic up for further conversation, and that Stacy had the time and interest to say more. My thoughts parallel both hers and Donald Maass. Someday, when I’m in the place where I’d want to hire an editor, I’d want an invested partner who’d expect and receive good compensation from me for an educational experience. Not everyone could or would do that, and it’s not good for either party if there’s a mismatch.
I’m the one who raised the comparison of medicine, and this is where I learned the importance of compatability; two doctors might have equivalent board certification, experience, and recommendations from specialists, patients, and colleagues, but can diverge greatly in communication styles, values, and expectations of what “health” means. Like “published” and “edited”, “health” is a value-laden term. It requires unpacking before parties know they’re working to the same goal.
Anyway, great and important topic.
Excellent topic. I have both used and referred many a professional editor and my satisfaction with their work has varied tremendously. I now have a precious list of the ones I really like, and when a friend or client asks for advice, I urge them toward that list to help ensure a good experience.
I agree that it should be par for the course that editors — or indeed any other freelance pros — are willing to share referrals and work samples and answer any questions that come up before beginning a working relationship. As a publicist, I always, always do the same, and view these crucial first steps as the building blocks of any good working relationship.
Wonderful comments, everyone, thank you! Please forgive me for my lack of correspondence today, but guess what? I finished my copy edits.
My editor is a friend who was an English teacher and school principle. I knew her reputation without needing to check it out.
My first edit had more red marks than black type! We debated on comma usage. The sternness of ‘principle-ness’ came out front and center. We did not lose our friendship over it fortunately, but I am a better writer because of her help. An editor should be willing to answer questions; if she weren’t, I’d probably look for someone who does.
We have respect for each others positions. I am new to writing, but she doesn’t call me all the time telling me what to write and I don’t deluge her with a lot of unnecessary questions.
The editing part is easy in my opinion, it’s the writing of those query letters and summaries that’s hard!
I do content editing and have mostly worked with people who have attended one of my workshops at a writing conference, or been referred by friends. In general, people don’t ask a lot of questions. I have a cut and paste overview I send when they first query, which explains what to expect (e.g., comments on plot and character arc, style suggestions, not line editing). I don’t do a sample edit of their manuscript, but I sent an “example edit,” an excerpt from a previous critique letter with name and details redacted. This seems to satisfy people and saves me time over doing a five or 10 page edit for free.
I also have written recommendations from previous clients on my website and in a document I can send. Several former clients have told me I can have prospective clients contact them, but no one has asked to do so.
Thanks for this. I had an absolutely fabulous experience with a freelance editor (and would be delighted to recommend him if anyone is looking for one). I put a lot of time into searching for someone who would “get” my vision for the book, and when I thought I found him, I contacted a former client of his (a director of Creative Writing at a major university), who raved about him. The editor turned out to be a gem of a human being, a truly wise, insightful, articulate and well-read person with a good sense of humor, and I will treasure his letter to me and read it any time I am feeling down about the publishing process, because it is proof to me that my book really reached at least one person. He also saw in it flaws no one else had picked up on, and had very constructive suggestions so that I felt empowered, not dejected, after reading his comments. I highly, highly recommend researching the right editor, and agree with those who point out that anyone offering a service should be willing to provide references.
I absolutely agree that you’ve got to check the credentials of a potential editor. It’s not just that you need to make sure you’re handing your manuscript off to the editor who’s the best fit for you. There are a lot of incompetents and crooks in the field, so you have to be careful.
But I don’t think you can expect an editor to put you in touch with a client for a personal interview. I’m contacted by fifteen or twenty people a week who are interested in my services. Talking to all of them is a lot to ask of current clients.
I’m not sure asking for a sample edit of your work is a good idea, either. Aside from the free work you’re asking a potential editor to do, I can’t edit something intelligently unless I know the entire story. Editing a page or two, cold, wouldn’t be a fair test of what I can offer.
Instead, I’d suggest you look for an editor who offers a list of published clients, samples of their work, or both. Like many legitimate editors, I also offer testimonials on my website. But if I were looking for an editor, I would ask around and choose by reputation.
“But I don’t think you can expect an editor to put you in touch with a client for a personal interview.”
This was what began the debate!
It was the point on the “Do this before hiring an editor” list that I questioned in the original article.
Asking for references is not the same as advising people to contact past or current clients, armed with a list of questions.
I’m not sure why these two things are not the same to me but somehow they are not. Perhaps it’s also that ten years ago it would never have occurred me not to give someone my email address. But these days there are many more crazy people on the internet masquerading as normal. I have become much more circumspect about privacy than I previously was. And that’s really where I was coming from–not my privacy in this situation, but that of a client’s. A lot of good suggestions were made on the WU group, and have also been made here, on how to protect yourself and your clients from potential trouble.
As yet another independent editor charging into the fray here, I’d offer the further notion that the best of the folks in my profession are able to be nimble, to tailor their work to the specific needs of the client in question. This absolutely necessitates a substantive exchange (or two or three) with a prospective client, in order to ascertain what type of approach will REALLY serve that client best.
As Don mentioned, re: his wife Lisa, sometimes that approach will take the form of collaborative face-to-face story development work. Sometimes, the client will be MUCH better served by an on-the-page edit and/or a detailed evaluation. My editing partner and I also offer something we call “on call” services as a way to help support and empower writers while they’re in the process of working on their books–giving them deadlines to meet and bits of feedback and support along the way.
In other words, it isn’t–at least it shouldn’t be–a cookie cutter approach, and doing our best work in that regard means getting to know the writer and his/her work a bit before launching into that relationship.
Given all of that, I can’t imagine being reluctant to speak to a prospective client or offer references. My website also lists client successes with easily verifiable links to their published works. My basic prices are right there on my site. So, it’s all pretty transparent, and it’s meant to answer a lot of questions upfront.
As Stacy mentions, I would never violate a clients’ confidence if he or she prefers our working relationship be kept private. Nor would I put a prospective client in touch with a current client without contacting the existing client first to get his or her permission to do so. Most clients don’t ask, but I don’t bat an eye if someone does; nor do I feel at all affronted. I understand COMPLETELY that our work represents a financial commitment and an extension of trust. If it’s within my capacity to help them feel assured of their investment of both, I can’t imagine not wishing to do so.
I also work as an independent editor and writer. The majority of my business comes through word of mouth or personal recommendations, so I don’t post a list of clients or testimonials on my website. I do make them available to an interested person if they ask. It does seem to be important to people who inquire that you work with clients who are published in some format.
What I do keep up, diligently, are postings of my own writing accomplishments. I’ve been approached a number of times by writers who’ve read one of my published stories and inquired about my editing services because they liked what I write. I’m not sure that’s the best method for choosing an editor, however, even though it has been a benefit to me.
What is most valuable to me as an editor is a conversation before a work agreement is reached about the author’s vision of the story. I want to know what you are trying to accomplish.
Free samples: I’ve heard a few stories about writers who go about requesting free samples of an opening chapter, over and over, with no intention to hire anyone. Dodginess happens on both sides. I don’t do free samples, but I do suggest to a new client to begin with the first 50 pages. It’s not a huge investment on either side, and after we work together on those, we both have the opportunity to decide if we’ll continue together.