The Secrets of Trying For A Bestseller List: Interview With Greenleaf’s Magdalene Thomas
By Sharon Bially | April 11, 2016 |
“What can I do to get my book onto a bestseller list?”
If I had a dime for each time an author has asked me this question, I wouldn’t need to be a bestseller myself to be rich. Until recently though, my answer has always been a disappointing, “I have no idea.” Or, “There’s nothing anyone can do.”
Then I had a fascinating conversation with the team over at Greenleaf Book Group, an independent publisher and book distributor. Greenleaf not only helps develop ideas into books which they then publish, promote and distribute they also also work with qualifying authors to make that bestseller list dream come true. And they’re successful at it.
What I learned was so eye-opening that I’ve invited Greenleaf marketing associate Magdalene Thomas to talk with me about strategies for reaching those bestseller lists in a Q&A here on Writer Unboxed. Magdalene’s work planning and executing strategic marketing campaigns with independent authors has resulted in numerous bestseller placements.
Welcome, Magdalene. Let’s dive in!
SB: When I heard that there are actually steps authors can take to help their books hit bestseller lists, I had to hit the universal reset button. Is it true?
MT: Yes, there really are steps that certain authors with the serious goal of becoming bestsellers can take. They primarily involve controlling volume and velocity of sales.
SB: That sounds so easy. What’s the rub?
MT: Every time I develop a marketing campaign for one of the many authors I work with, I ask: “What are your goals for this book?” Nine times out of ten, their response is some iteration of “I want to have a best seller.”
As someone who is acutely aware of the realities of placing on a best-seller list, I have to take a deep breath before I respond. Hitting a bestseller list is the ultimate validation of an author’s time, emotion, energy and ideas. Yet planning for this takes resources and the outcome is not guaranteed. So even though I can help my authors take the necessary steps, I also have to help them set expectations and encourage them to set more realistic goals.
There is a time and place for marketing campaigns focusing on high-level bestseller lists such as The New York Times. That type of campaign is not right for every book and author. Luckily there are also other types of bestseller campaigns that are more accessible, like on Amazon. It’s important for authors to assess which if any of these are best given their specific situations.
SB: What situations lend themselves to working toward placement on national bestseller lists like the New York Times or Wall Street Journal?
MT: A push for placement on a third-party best-seller list like The New York Times works best if you have an existing audience that is primed to purchase your book as it hits shelves.
These best-seller lists are determined by sales numbers within a period of seven days, along with a few other proprietary factors like the balance of brick-and-mortar versus online sales. If you want to contend for a coveted spot, you’ll need to sell thousands of books in a single week. That concentration and volume of sales is really only achievable if you have a huge audience already in front of you that is chomping at the bit to read your work when it publishes. This means many months or even years of communicating with your audience in advance so they are poised to hit “purchase” when it’s time.
SB: That certainly limits the number of authors who could make an intentional goal of trying to hit a national bestseller list.
MT: It does. That level of audience and activity simply isn’t the norm for the vast majority of authors. Most authors have full-time jobs and families and lives outside of writing that take their focus and resources away from developing a cult following.
In this case, setting a goal to hit a national best-seller list is unachievable. It’s harsh, but it’s true. And if you put all of your resources into one unachievable goal, you’ll do so at the expense of other genuinely valuable opportunities.
SB: What about for authors that do have the coveted cult following? Say, a blogger whose site gets a quarter of a million monthly hits, or a business owner with many thousands of loyal clients? Do they stand a pretty good chance?
MT: Even if you do have an audience of thousands and the resources to stoke the fires of their fanaticism, there are still obstacles to hitting that bestseller goal. It’s impossible to know exactly how many books you actually need to sell to land on a best-seller list. There’s no threshold at which a book is guaranteed to place; much depends on market conditions, like what other competing titles are being released in that same week. A book may sell 5,000 copies and land at number 4 one week while the very next week it might need to sell 12,000 to eke in at number 10.
That’s why it’s so important for all authors, including those with large followings, to manage expectations accordingly.
SB: There must be cases where it works out. What sorts of successes have you seen in helping authors push for bestseller list placement, and what are the benefits? Do they outweigh the costs?
MT: Yes! We’ve seen the greatest success when running ebook bestseller campaigns, including Amazon bestseller placements (more on that later) and Wall Street Journal bestseller placements. A few immediate benefits include a healthy ego boost, the right to add “bestseller author” to your branding, increased visibility online, and “new news” opportunities. By “new news opportunities,” I mean that hitting a bestseller list gives you something new to talk about when engaging with your audience, reaching out to form partnerships with other organizations, or pitch an article idea to media.
Ebook bestseller campaigns don’t have to require a huge financial investment–even modest advertising budgets paired with a fair amount of elbow grease can get results.
SB: Even if a national bestseller list strategy isn’t for everyone, you mentioned that other strategies, like pushing for an Amazon list, are more accessible. When are these approaches most valuable and which authors should consider them?
MT: An Amazon bestseller strategy works best for first-time authors and authors who are looking to gain the attention of new readers.
We all know Amazon. Amazon is convenient and it’s prices are competitive, which makes it an incredibly strong bookseller. More importantly, Amazon knows what readers are interested in on the basis of their browsing, purchase, and review history and will proactively make recommendations to users browsing their site.
To consumers, Amazon’s recommendation algorithm that predicts what we want – and shows it to us – is extremely unsettling. But to authors marketing their books, it’s a goldmine for helping draw readers to a title.
SB: We hear a lot about Amazon’s magical algorithms. But what are they, really, and how do they work?
MT: Amazon’s technology notices when products receive significant traffic on their page. This traffic could come in the form of page views, clicks, new reviews, or purchases.
If a product page receives enough traffic, Amazon can reasonably assume that consumers like it. In the interest of continuing that momentum, Amazon starts recommending the product to consumers who have a similar browsing or purchase history.
For authors whose books get recognized by Amazon’s promotional algorithm, this means that Amazon will do some of the heavy lifting of finding new, primed audiences for them.
SB: Amazon sells millions of books. How can authors make sure their book gets into that algorithm when they’re competing against so many others?
MT: The best way to get a book into Amazon’s promotion algorithm is by becoming a browse-category bestseller. The top 100 books in each category are considered by Amazon to be bestsellers.
Here’s a step-by-step method to boost your ranking and visibility on Amazon: [is this most applicable to self-published authors?]
- Set the browse categories for your book through your Amazon Author Central profile. Since you’re looking to hit the top 100 of a category, you’ll want to choose representative categories with the least competition.
- Plan a campaign that will create a high, concentrated level of activity on the Amazon page at a specific time. This may be as simple as driving your social media followers to the Amazon page to leave a review one Thursday evening, or, for authors who have the right to control their pricing, advertising a one-day ebook flash sale to encourage a flurry of buys on a Saturday.
- Watch your book rise through the ranks. Category rankings are updated every hour, so check back throughout the day.
- If your book falls short of top 100, come back with a new plan in a few weeks. You can try different promotional techniques or even select different categories for your book.
SB: That seems simple!
MT: Yes, that’s it! Having an Amazon best seller is very achievable with some strategic planning ahead of time and a supportive audience, whether they’re a part of your newsletter list or follow you on social media. And the potential benefits are pretty big, since once a book is on an Amazon bestseller list, it becomes more visible to new audiences.
It’s worth noting that, like national best-selling lists, there is no sales threshold to becoming an Amazon bestseller. Amazon’s bestseller lists are updated hourly and based on both sales numbers and activity on the book’s product page, which means you could drive thousands of people to your book’s Amazon page but only sell a handful of books and still technically become an Amazon best seller.
Some authors may balk at this; it does seem a little like cheating to claim you’ve had an Amazon bestseller if you’ve only sold a dozen copies. Instead of thinking of having an Amazon bestseller as a long-term title to carry with you, think of it as a short-term tool you can use to get your book in front of new readers.
Finally, remember: In book publishing and promotion there are many outcomes that are hard if not impossible to predict. Whatever goals you decide on, staying grounded in reality will help you weather the setbacks and enjoy the potential nice surprises.
Sharon Bially (@SharonBially) is the founder and president of BookSavvy PR, a public relations firm devoted to authors and books. Author of the novel Veronica’s Nap, she’s a member of the Director’s Circle at Grub Street, Inc., the nation’s largest independent writing center, and writes occasionally for the Grub Street Daily.
This was an excellent article. Thanks for all the “inside” tips. At first I didn’t read this thinking that there was no way I could ever fit into the “bestseller” category. But the Amazon strategy is doable. Many thanks!
Hi Sharon: Can you explain a bit more about how to “Set the browse categories for your book through your Amazon Author Central profile.” I don’t see any options for this on my Amazon Author Central pages and nothing termed “categories.” Is it a new feature on Author Central? Where is it exactly?
I do have my book categories set on my KDP.Amazon.com page, which is a different site entirely from Author Central.
Hi Paula – I am getting some clarification about a nuance here from Magdalene and will let you know as soon as I hear!
Overall, I believe that the same process can be done simply through your account setup if you are a CreateSpace author: just pick the categories, which you can change anytime.
Stay tuned for the clarification from Magdalene.
-Sharon
Interesting interview. I especially appreciate the concluding paragraph.
Being a best selling author could be the icing on the cake, but it isn’t the cake.
A practical and sensible look at the mechanics of best seller lists and how to place on them. However, I wonder how many writers reading this piece stopped thinking rationally at the words “best seller”.
Selling quickly isn’t the only goal. Best seller status isn’t bad but inflation has set in. Does it seem to you like there’s a glut of best sellers? Do you trust that badge less than you once did?
Best seller feels good but when contract renewal time comes the numbers that matter are unit sales and sell through. How many *total* readers. If I had to choose I’d take more who discover a title over time (though word of mouth, say) than fewer who rush to click “Purchase” in a single week.
Even more I’d take a fan base that returns for each new title. To be sure there is correlation between best seller status and audience size, but you see my point. What you want is not only to achieve a quick pace of sale but also to rack up readers who stick.
That doesn’t happen through marketing alone. Readers stick when they read stories that enthrall.
It’s an illuminating article about the mechanics- thanks for sharing. Don is right that it’s ultimately about content of course, and what could be more gratifying than word-of-mouth recommendations that send your book climbing up the charts? In this fast, 5-second attention span world we live in, visibility is important too, though. I guess we need both the fan base AND the visibility.
Hi Don – I love how you always bring us right back to the fundamentals; in this case:
“What you want is not only to achieve a quick pace of sale but also to rack up readers who stick.
That doesn’t happen through marketing alone. Readers stick when they read stories that enthrall.”
Thanks!
Great article, and I have heard positive things about Greenleaf Book Group.
One thing I’d like to add: I just read an article by a statistician who studies algorithms, and he said that a one-day spike in sales on Amazon means nothing long-term. That it is the consistency of rising sales which work for gaining status in the ranks. I do not think that peaks and valleys are the most advantageous, and so for me, slow and steady will hopefully win the race.
My friends who are avid readers, who do not know anything about the pub industry, always look for bestsellers. But my friends who read while understanding a bit about the industry tend to ignore the labels, and buy books based on word-of-mouth. Everyone I have asked does look at review stars, but all are willing to read a 3.5 and higher. Believe it or not, I do not have one friend who cares about where a book is in rankings. Some don’t even know there are rankings to begin with. Conversely, in order to gain new audiences, getting their title to the first one or two pages on Amazon is definitely important.
And let’s not underestimate the power of in-person book signings. I sell WAY more books that way than on Amazon. They don’t count towards my ranking, but I put a little cash back into the coffers!
Also, writers, remember: Most begin making headway with their 3rd, 4th, or 5th book. NOT the first. So have patience and write the best book you possibly can, and get better with each book you write. Sales will happen if you keep up the good work and remain positive. Let the one-offs sink to the bottom. You will make it to the top of the hill because you believe in consistency over a flash-in-the-pan bestseller. It may take a while, but if you are in this for the long haul, like I am, the payoff will be incredible. : )
Leslie, you make some good points, especially about the long haul. The Amazon algorithms thing is a mystery. Actually John Doppler has a blog post on Amazon algorithms this month that explains it fairly well, although not completely: https://selfpublishingadvice.org/amazon-sales-rank-taming-the-algorithm/ Doppler advises: “A launch day blitz may briefly attain a high sales rank, but steady, organic growth will sustain it.” I’m on novel #3 myself and the readers from from first two novels are clearly onboard. This definitely is the long game of writing well, producing a professional product, and building and maintaining a steady readership. Exhausting! Exhilarating!
Paula: Yes, I read that article! Thanks for posting a link.
Ten books written so far, two up and running. My agent is now helping me decide which ones to self-pub and in what order. It sure is a new world!!
; )
” . . . it does seem a little like cheating to claim you’ve had an Amazon bestseller if you’ve only sold a dozen copies.”
Actually, it’s worse than cheating. It’s lying to the rest of the world and more importantly, lying to yourself.
I have never used the term Amazon Bestseller or Amazon Best-Selling Author even though the print edition of my “How to Retire Happy, Wild, and Free” was often #1 in Amazon’s “retirement planning” category and sold over 35,000 copies on Amazon in 2014 and 2015. That doesn’t include another 8,874 copies of the Kindle edition.
Whenever I see someone using the term “Amazon Bestselling Author,” I immediately think, “This person is a fraud.”
Book marketing guru John Kremer (author of “1001 Ways to Market Your Books”) agrees with me. He asked me if he could place a comment that I made on a blog post as a complete blog post in itself on his website. You can read it at:
https://bookmarketingbestsellers.com/ernie-zelinski-on-being-an-amazon-bestseller/
To repeat, isn’t it about time that publishers and authors started showing some integrity by being impeccable with their word instead of using trickery and deceit to build themselves up?
My advice to you as an author: Don’t use the term Best-Selling Author unless your book has sold 40,000 copies in the U.S. or 100,000 copies worldwide. If you start using the term when your book has sold only 25 copies or 100 copies or even 2,000 copies, deep down you will know that you are a fraud and lying to the outside world. Moreover, you will be telling yourself subconsciously that you are incapable of creating a true bestseller and have to use trickery or outright lying to claim that you are Best-Selling Author.
One last note: Taking this approach has resulted in my selling over 900,000 copies of my books (mainly self-published) worldwide. My approach of not lying to the world or myself has also helped me get published in 22 languages and 29 countries and get a total of 111 book deals with foreign publishers, all without using a North American foreign rights agent or ever going to the Frankfurt Book Fair or the London Book Fair.
As Aristotle said, “In the arena of human life the honors and rewards fall to those who show their good qualities in action.”
Ernie J. Zelinski
The Prosperity Guy
“Helping Adventurous Souls Live Prosperous and Free”
Author of the Bestseller “How to Retire Happy, Wild, and Free”
(Over 275,000 copies sold and published in 9 languages)
and the International Bestseller “The Joy of Not Working”
(Over 290,000 copies sold and published in 17 languages)
Wise words, Ernie. As Don said, “I wonder how many writers reading this piece stopped thinking rationally at the words “best seller”.
It is true, for better or for worse, that the mere notion of “being a bestseller” can be a seductive and beguiling goal — whatever it actually means.
Thanks, Ernie, for the link to your article. Quite illuminating. Appreciate your input in this discussion.
I’m in 200% complete agreement with Ernie. I’m extremely weary of authors (self-pubbed/hybrid/whatever) going on and on continually about where their books are ranked. I can think of one author in particular who constantly lets us know where her book is ranking on Amazon, and of course you get the others chiming in when they’re ranking high.
And I absolutely abhor the “USA Bestseller” title that authors give themselves when they have contributed one short story under 5K words in a box set with a gazillion other authors, and they achieve this status–and to boot, the box set is removed from sale at some point.
I truly think that is not kosher. If you get a bestseller title on a full-length novel and sell a bunch of copies like Ernie outlined, then yes, crow away. Readers are also stating that they are disregarding the Amazon Best-selling author title. It’s amazing how few books you are selling. My ranking can climb exponentially with one book sale. The number jump fools you into thinking you’ve sold several copies.
Authors do it to crow and brag, and they hope that by slapping these “titles” on their books, it will help them sell more books. I’m sure in many cases it does, but I’m seeing readers wise up to this.
Overall, I didn’t find this article the most helpful, unfortunately, but only to reiterate that authors who do better already have a huge fan base, and an author has to think about what’s the best approach for them. I’m more interested in finding the fan base, which is elusive at best. Hugh Howey and David Gaughgran have some of their insights and information on how authors make the best-seller lists, and it’s not pretty either.
The comments on this article today have been terrific. Thanks to all who have weighed in on this (obviously) hot topic.