Dealing with critique feedback
By Ray Rhamey | July 21, 2011 |
A reader of my blog, Flogging the Quill, asked a question for my new Monday “FtQ&A” feature that I thought I would explore here and expand there next week. (This Monday it was answers regarding my self-publishing efforts.)
This writer asked, “When faced with differing opinions about how to fix your writing or plot or story or whatever, how do you decide which advice to take?”
First, it depends on the source. I’m sure my questioner meant feedback from other writers or readers of their manuscripts, but even then the source matters.
1. Feedback from a pro such as an agent or editor
I take this seriously. They’ve seen, read, experienced, and sold far more than I. I say follow the feedback and see where it takes you. In this day of computers and “save-as” to create a revised version of a manuscript, you can’t lose anything.
This includes feedback you’ve paid for from an editor such as me. As I’ve reported here before, I wanted my We the Enemy novel to be as good as it could be, and I paid $2500 for a critique from a top editor and publisher. You bet I took his advice, and rewrote massively to create a much better novel. It’s getting some good reader reviews on Amazon.
Question for you published authors: Have you disregarded feedback from your agent or editor?
2. Feedback from a critique partner
Assuming this is a critique partner or partner that you have experience with and value their insight, weigh it carefully. Do a save-as and give it a try. And don’t decide immediately if your first reaction is to disagree. Let it simmer. On one of my novels, coming out soon, a critique group partner, upon reaching the third chapter, said, “Your story starts here.”
I instantly disagreed—what about all that set-up stuff in chapters 1 and 2 that the reader needs? But three months later, when polishing the manuscript, his advice sank in and I did a rewrite that started with chapter 3. Much better.
3. Feedback from a “changer,” no matter what the source
Recently I requested feedback from readers of my blog regarding promotional materials for the upcoming paperback version of my novel Finding Magic. I received many helpful insights and have made revisions accordingly. But one tidbit was from a “changer.” I’m sure you’ve encountered those folks, the ones whose suggestions are really the way they would write it.
In this case, I invented a word to stand for casting an illusion using means that seem magical. I did my research, and there is a word that means that: “glamour.” I had invented a word to mean the same thing: glamére. The critiquer wrote that I should change my made-up word to be the same as the known one. Why, they wondered, change it?
I appreciated the reader’s effort to be helpful, but I felt there were two reasons for doing what I did. While I know that “glamour” can mean a magical deception, I wasn’t sure that an “ordinary” reader wouldn’t instead take the other meaning of the word, the one that has to do with being glamorous, which is the second meaning of “glamour” in my dictionary. More than that, I wanted my word to be one that had evolved from “glamour” over the centuries in its usage by the Hidden Clans in the novel that used that word and others to describe their seemingly magical abilities.
How to decide
We all have our own techniques, but here are mine. When a suggestion clearly just doesn’t fit, as in the one just cited, the answer is quick and sure.
Then there are the suggested rewrites from changers that turn my voice into their voice. If the suggestion doesn’t sound like the way I write a narrative, then I can’t use it, and it really isn’t all that helpful.
The ability to “hear” your voice and that of other writers is, I think, a talent that separates editors from writers. I know that in my editing work a primary goal is to respect the voice of the writer. My task is to help them clarify and strengthen their natural voice, not to change it to mine.
Finally, I think you listen to your gut. Does the feedback resonate with you and your story in a way that fits? That makes you say, yeah, that could work? It’s that inner sense, that “feel” of the words, that is an artist’s final guide to reacting to critical feedback.
At least that’s the way it works for me. How about you? Any stories about “changers” you’ve met?
Ray Rhamey is the author of five novels and one writing craft book, Mastering the Craft of Compelling Storytelling. He’s also an editor of book-length fiction and designs book covers and interiors for Indie authors and small presses. His website, crrreative.com, offers an a la carte menu of creative services for writers and publishers. Learn more about Ray’s books at rayrhamey.com.
I’d suggest giving any critique that you disagree with time to settle in first, sometimes days, sometimes weeks. I always have an initial “No way” reaction to criticism that has to do with resistance to change, disappointment that the reader didn’t think it perfect as is, and reluctance to do the hard work on a piece that I had begun to think of as ‘finished.’ But, in my experience, some of the criticisms that elicited the strongest initial dismissive reaction, turned out to be the most helpful (like your decision to start the book on Chapter 3).
Another way to look at critique is to ask “Does this make my story more authentic?” The glamere example is interesting because the author has decided that the use of that word adds authenticity to her world, so an attempt to change it is wrong. Critique we take should all be in the service of making the story more true.
I can attest to this. Ray himself gave me similar advice on his blog, “Why are you starting here when your conflict begins in chapter 3?” I was extremely resistant, because the first two chapters had a lot of essential information. However, after doing a ‘save as’, and reworking when events occurred in the timeline, I was able to do as he suggested. At the same time, I ended up fixing a plot hole, expanding a character, and trimming about 700 words from the manuscript.
So yes, unless the suggestion is totally off-the-wall, dive down that rabbit hole! (With the ‘save as’ function as your bungee cord)
Hey, Chro, I like “bungee cord” as an analogy! And I’m glad that advice worked out for you.
What a great post! There’s a fine line between a good suggestion and a bad one, and it can be hard to discern the two. When given conflicting pieces of advice, I try both of them and see which one works. That can be hard, especially when my initial reaction is negative. Lots of advice given is workable, but ultimately it’s up to the writer to decide what makes the story shine.
Great post, Ray. As one of the commenters on your blurb post, hope I wasn’t too much of a “changer!” I liked your techniques to separate the wheat from the chaff, critique-wise.
This will probably sound woo-woo, but I think that writers need to be as in touch with their intuition as possible. No matter who gives you advice — even paid editors — it’s ultimately your book. That said, there’s a fine line between disagreeing with a critique and simply not wanting to hear one out of stubbornness. I tend to wrestle with those a lot!
Great post. I think sometimes people get overwhelmed, almost forgetting that it IS their call. :)
Nice post! I agree with Jeanne. Don’t outright discount anything. I don’t think it’s so bad to hear what a “changer” has to say. It can elicit other ideas sometimes. Of course, as Cathy says, it’s your book. But it was also “your book” when you had all that backstory in Chapters 1 & 2. :-) Yes, it’s all a balancing act and gaining more confidence in your own decisions on how to handle things as you grow as a writer.
Oh, critique. Once, I was raging yet again over one reader’s marks on my MS. (Privately at home, of course.) Then I realized a couple of things:
1. The reader had not said one single positive thing. It’s possible she didn’t LIKE the story at all, and would have never read past page one on her own. If she never “got into” the story, that explained the constant nitpicking.
2. I could still use her advice to change the things I did agree with. Hah! That will show her! :-)
3. Average. I keep thinking about that word, average. How many books have I read that flowed along smoothly, things happening in order as expected, the character a composite of every other fictional character? If I take the feedback of too many people, and keep adapting to please them, my work gets closer to being average, and further from being MY work. I’d rather get knocked for some of my weirdness than for being average and predictable.
I am lucky enough (okay, I worked VERY hard over several years building this group, but still feel lucky) to have a great circle of critiquers who don’t try to rewrite.
One thing I pay especial attention to (since I’m female) is what the guys have to say. If they tell me a guy wouldn’t say X, wouldn’t do Y, or wouldn’t (if I am writing from a male POV) THINK that way, I ALWAYS revise according to what I hear from them.
To me, it doesn’t matter that my primary audience is female – I want my work to be as authentic as possible. I would advise male writers the same thing – make sure you have female readers, and LISTEN to their input.
Even back in the day, when my group wasn’t as finely honed and had some rank beginners in it – if a member was shaking his/her head and saying, “I don’t get that part,” that represents to me a potential reader who will not be buying my book (or buying a second one.) So I take that into consideration too, when editing.
It’s always a bit hard to give up that opening that you’ve imagined for years. Or it is for me. One of my WIPs has a much beloved opening that I just knew was destined to be. Then a good friend and fellow writer said I was starting with back story. I protested and fussed, but in the end, I knew she was right. It’s a better story now, but I’ll admit it took me forever to see it.
Great post, Ray. I like your distinctions on the level of advice. An agent or editor definitely gets top billing with me.
I miss my first opening too. But it can always come back as “bonus content” on your web site. Or maybe it just lives forever in our heads, our own secret knowledge about our characters’ lives.
I find it easier to “kill the babies”, as one writer friend calls it, if I have a document where I can save up all those favorite lines that I’m cutting on a test run. It makes it easier to say goodbye if it doesn’t feel permanent at first.
I do the same thing. I have not yet pulled something back out … but you never know. Whatever makes it easier!
Great advice here!
A couple of things I also pay extra close attention to include the frequency of a specific critique and also the nature of the feedback. In the first drafting stages of my novel, several people suggested I change the POV to third person limited. I resisted for a while until I realized it was coming up more often than not. If the majority of your readers are suggesting the same things, I think it’s definitely time to listen.
I’d also say the nature of the critique is important. For example, if someone says you could use a few extra scenes to develop a character’s relationship with another character, then you can choose to listen to that critique and still have creative liberties. But if someone’s telling you exactly HOW you should do that, and you’re not comfortable with it, don’t feel like you have to do it. Instead, try to get to the WHY of their suggestion, and see if it helps make the book better.
Great post! One of the ways I determine whether to take or leave advice from my critique circle is how many people come up with the same issue. If it’s just one person who tells me how to rewrite the whole section, it’s probably a “changer.” If three or four people have the same issue with the same section, it lets me know I need to look at it a little more closely, whether I want to or not!
Not two days ago was I wondering if I should change my work because of a critique I had received, so this is excellent timing.
Its also a great article, because I now know how to handle the review.
This particular “changer” was suggesting so many changes in my work that it didn’t sound like my story at all, once I’d tried some of them out.
So thanks for this article, I now know how to handle the feedback.
Love this post, Ray. As it is with pretty much anyone who writes, I’ve had a fair share of critique suggestions come my way. Good, bad, and ridiculous. Once the shock and horror of incoming critique comments ebb away, I did find that the wise suggestions were still standing and the nonsense had pretty much crumbled around me. I’m a firm believer in instinct, and strongly agree that in the end it’s your vision, your words, and your creation. You don’t want to be a stubborn bull, just as you don’t want to forget your own place in your words.
Great post. This is a topic that bothers everyone in my critique group. Who do you listen to? I’ve become comfortable enough with my writing to reject what I don’t agree with, but I’ve seen many others–who claim they know their writing–reject really important suggestions.
Moral: Umm, who knows?
I just joined a critique group, so I really appreciate the blog and all the comments.
Interesting discussion, because at some point those comments move from ‘critiques’ to ‘amazon reviews’. But then you can’t do anything about it. If I make a critique I am pointing out things that are jarring, irritating, or make me want to put the book down. If an author is interesting in knowing this I suppose they’ll read it, and if not, they’ll move along.
These are all great things to think about. Many writers I work with, I have to remind them that it is their story and they have the power to change or not change what they want.
I find all feedback is useful; everyone is a teacher, we just need to be open. Some lessons are about how NOT to do things, admittedly, but there’s something to be learned everywhere. I belong to the IWW (Internet Writing Workshop), and there’s an incredible variety of authors – published and not, experienced and new, lyrical and commercial, from all sorts of different nationalities and backgrounds. The feedback is so enriching it’s mindblowing, and I find, almost always, at least one good suggestion in their polite and sharp observations.
About “changers”, I’d heard of them but I’d never had the ‘pleasure’. Some weeks ago, one appeared, transforming my 400-word flash of a woman’s disillusioned incursion in infidelity into a cheap porn-like male wet-dream. Oh, I was incensed!
A quick example: my sentence read ‘The first margarita was an olive branch, albeit a strong one, and by the second one I was being wooed too skillfully to care.’ Mr. Changer’s ‘suggestion’ was ‘One of the more attractive men ordered me a professional mixed Maragrita. The up-glass was chilled with a nice frost running under the edge of crusty bar salt with the elixer foaming just above the rim of the stemware. To simply say that I was seduced is to malign the desired effect of drinking. This is exactly what I needed to break my own ice.’ Huh??
A little later, two lines of dialog say: ‘“I should go,” I looked around for my pocketbook. “I should go with you,” Michael smiled, handing it to me.’ The changer found that too skimmed down, and suggested instead ‘We drank and we smoked and then we went to my room. He said, “Give me your keycard and I’ll open more than one door”.’
I fumed for, like, two days. Then I started smiling at some of his edits, and finally I was able to laugh. I never replied to him, and I never saw him in the critique group again, so I’m assuming he was politely escorted out. It’s hard to avoid getting into a discussion with people like that, trying to defend and validate your own voice, because it’s simply out of their scope.