Do Editors Edit Anymore?
By Guest | April 19, 2011 |
Kath here. Please welcome Caroline Tolley to Writer Unboxed today. Caroline is a freelance editor who has been freelancing for ten years on all genres of popular fiction; including YA, fiction for men, mystery, cop books, literary fiction and, romance. Her publishing career began after college when she went to work for the direct mail-order Book Clubs; The Literary Guild, The Rhapsody Book Club, and The Book of the Month Club.
She moved on to Pocket Books, a division of Simon and Schuster, one of the largest publishers of commercial fiction in New York, where she worked for 12+ years, moving up the ranks to the last position she held as their Executive Editor. A number of her authors made appearances on the New York Times, PW and USA TODAY bestseller lists. We’re so lucky to have Caroline share her insights into the changing editorial landscape.
Caroline can be reached at thebookeditor4u@optonline.net.
Enjoy!
Do editors edit? Has the ever-changing world of publishing reached the physical page of a manuscript? That seems to be a hot topic these days, though in my nearly 20 years of being involved with the world of popular fiction for women, I may have heard this once or twice before. But the chatter seems to be louder these days. Why? And where do I fit in?
I am a freelance content editor specializing in women’s fiction. I have been working directly with authors for nearly 10 years. Prior to this endeavor, I spent almost 15 years on the front lines of commercial fiction publishing in New York as an Executive Editor at Pocket Books. I edited New York Times bestsellers, as well as books from first-timers. I edited while at the office; I edited at home; I edited on trips. I was always on the phone with authors discussing revisions, rewrites, ideas. I rolled up my sleeves and I edited any and all manuscripts that were my responsibility the same way; with a blue pen on paper and a stack of sticky notes nearby. I have since gotten rid of the sticky notes, but I still edit on paper. Given the popularity of editing electronically (the Track Changes method), I gather that this is one aspect of the process that may be on its way out, but I am going to be hanging on to my pen until the bitter end!
The rumblings about editing that have reached me out here in my small seaside village boil down to one thing; time. Editors and agents have less time nowadays to devote to the actual editorial process and the manuscript itself. And because of this, manuscripts need to arrive in pristine form because in many cases, they won’t be thoroughly edited. Editors are looking for complete works rather than partials and they are more critical in their assessments. They want it ready to go. For many, the time is just not there to devote to a brand new writer and their book. This is a sea change from years back. Authors that have been in the business a long time will probably tell you they spend less time than in the past talking with their editor about the quality of the writing. If messing with the book is going to take up time but won’t in the end, contribute to selling more copies, then it isn’t always done. Sales and marketing and publicity plans can be a larger focus for an editor. Editors are encouraged to focus on new acquisitions and how to get the best talent. Who can they lure away? What marketing gimmicks are working? Editors can spend more time in meetings than at their desks. Free time for some only comes late at night.
In some cases, only a cursory edit is done and then the book is sent on its way. Second edits? I would hazard a guess they are rare. Are the more seasoned editors mentoring the assistant and associate editors? And what are the implications of this if the answer is no? How will the skills be kept alive? I’m sure many of us have heard a friend or peer say proudly that his or her manuscript needed no revisions. Was that truly the case, or was something else involved? And then you hear a complaint about the quality of the fiction…Did anyone EDIT this?? How can they publish this?? Of course too, there are those authors who get their manuscripts back and the rewrites are extensive. This does indeed still happen, perhaps more often than we hear about. There are also agents that still edit and polish prior to submitting a clients’ work. In the past, an agent would hone the project and the editor would dig in to the manuscript after the contract is signed. Nowadays, odds are that isn’t going to happen in quite the same way.
Do editors edit? Yes and no; sometimes/depends.
So what choices do writers have when it comes to the editorial process in an ever-changing publishing landscape?
Some are surely fortunate enough to have found a talented partner or group that helps them hone their craft. They benefit greatly from insights, support and creativity given by other writers who no doubt can share what works and doesn’t work for them. This is a tremendously valuable asset to have and many, many authors have achieved success with this as their base.
And there are those writers who are perfectly content in their office; writing on their own, communicating with few, hitting bestseller lists with their stellar product.
Another writer may have found an agent and yet together, they are unable to move the manuscript in the direction they desire.
But what if you don’t fall squarely into a category? What if you are thinking of self-publishing? This is a popular option these days as so many writers feel what is offered in some cases by a publisher is less than generous, especially for new writers in the mass marketplace. The author then has to go it alone and wear many hats as a result. She must market and publicize at a minimum, by herself. The rise in popularity of freelance editors is a by-product of this new reality. Authors are looking for options and hiring a professional can perhaps give them an edge. Being open to this kind of critical assessment may or may not be for you. But if it does appeal, one should research the editorial services being provided and in my opinion, connect with an editor who has experience editing books similar to your own.
Here is a peek through the window of how I like to approach working with authors…
I am a large canvas editor. I read with two hats on; my reader hat and my editor hat. I use my reactions on both levels to form suggestions for clients. I react as I read and clients can often find scribbles in the margins. I do not censor these comments or try to sugar-coat a reaction if it happens to be negative. I do not believe that it makes sense to wear kid gloves while working for a client. My job is to give the writer an advantage, if I can. My job is to assist the author in getting the manuscript as close to perfect as we can.
Stories need to be great. We’ve all heard this; at workshops, on tape, in critique group. The hook is key. Does it hold, lure to a satisfying ending? When I edit, I don’t follow a formula or have a checklist. I focus on the main characters; are they likeable; are they believable; are the circumstances believable. I have no problem with an old plot with a new twist. I look for pacing. I hate clichés. I hate cop-outs. I focus on tense. I focus a lot on point of view. Are there too many at one time? Is reading like watching a tennis match? Am I with one character enough to get a grasp on that character, or being moved onto someone else too quickly? Conflict is always a big issue for writers and seems to come up a lot in conversation. Does one character have something another character wants? If I am reading a love story, is there an obstacle that needs to be overcome? Does Life throw a believable curve ball at these folks?
Sometimes I do edit toward the market. Is it funny enough? Is it sexy enough? Is the police procedure creative? Is the puzzle hard to solve? Do I feel the jeopardy the character is in? Does the writer know where she/he would like this manuscript to end up? Is there an audience out there that might be the right one? Does the author peruse the shelves in the bookstore? Has the author done his/her homework in this regard?
I am not a proofreader or a copy-editor or a fact-checker. I am not a writer. I do not have books on my desk about style and rules. I have not written self-help books about writing.
A freelance job for me is not a quick thing. It takes time. I try to work at a good pace as I know there is an anxiousness to get results and move forward. But sometimes it just doesn’t work that way. I fly by the seat of my pants a lot. I listen to my immediate reactions a lot, both positive and negative. I think of myself as an author’s editor rather than a company person (so to speak). Editing for me is a truly enjoyable thing. It was always the favorite part about my job when I was in Corporate America. I think of my work as entering into short-term partnerships; helping to create something, making it great and then patting it on the head and sending it on its way.
Book publishing has changed, is changing, from years ago. Editors lugged bulky manuscripts home then; now they carry Kindles. Then we often edited at our desks; now, that probably isn’t encouraged. The Mouse clicks instead of a blue pen. Then, there were budgets for historical romances (albeit minimal!). Now? Not so much. It’s always been about moving the product, in as many quantities as possible. Now, perhaps doing more books with one author is preferred over focusing on many. The New York Times has an E-Book bestseller list; that fascinates me. And surely more changes are coming. We will adapt as we continue on to the next thing…I just hope that those of us who so enjoy working with writers can keep the art of editing (and our blue pens!) alive.
Many thanks to today’s guest.
You can read more WU guest posts by visiting this link.
A really interesting look at the fiction editor’s job (and how it’s changing)! I’ve done a lot of business and non-fiction editing, but I think your job sounds a lot more challenging, interesting, and fun! Thanks for a great post — and a look at the kind of great input I’d get on my work if I worked with an editor.
I’m re-editing a previously published book in anticipation of getting the rights back and re-publishing it. I’ve learned a lot since then, and I know now that this editor was way too busy at the time, and now that I know what to look for, I can tell.
I’m also working with a free-lance editor for a new book, and she’s dealing with the little glitches as well as pointing out where she has questions about characters and plot. I can’t imagine putting anything out there without having a set of well-trained eyes looking at it first.
Sometimes it’s good to hear the same thing over and over again. That way it sinks in! I was talking to my agent last week who said this as well — and it was something I knew. Editors at publishing houses don’t have the time they used to have — manuscripts must arrive on their desks pretty much “ready to go.” It’s daunting – especially for newer writers to realize how many steps there are in the process. Finding the right person or persons to get your book where it needs to be is so important.
Thanks for the reminders!
Great look at the responsibilities of an editor, and their evolution as the industry changes. I think it’s also important to remember that there are different kinds of editors — acquisitions, copy, etc. Some people don’t realize that.
Anyhoot, thanks for sharing your insights and experiences so candidly.
Thanks for the great insights! I like how you describe the two hats–the editor and reader hat. I’ve had several writing groups and sometimes each writer needs different types of feedback. One might want line edits while another is more interested in general impressions. So in a way, we writers wear two hats as well while we read.
I love that you’re still using that blue pen, by the way! I get the majority of edits now via MS Word…but I do love a marked-up manuscript.
Excellent post, confirming some of the things I’ve noticed in my own experience, with four novels under my belt.
Despite my initial feelings when I get the edits for a novel, I end up seeing that the editor has shown me how to make the work better. I hope that the changes in the publishing industry won’t result in fewer editors who have less time to do what I consider an important job.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for this fascinating glimpse into your world.
One of the things that concerns me most about the growing popularity of self-publishing is its tendency to skip the editorial process. So here’s hoping that as the industry evolves, you’ll continue to play an important role – even if it means you finally have to start clicking a mouse! :)
Thanks for the peek inside an editor’s office/mind. Priceless.
This post was a fascinating tour of the fiction editor’s world and how that job is changing. I had no idea that books were not getting edited and re-edited in the publishing industry the way they once were. I mean, it makes sense that a new writer should submit the most pristine manuscript he or she can offer, but I assumed part of the delay between submission and book launch was the thorough editing process. It’s fascinating. Businesses need to make money and it’s true that an editor who can go through six books rather then three twice is going to bring more value to the bottom line.
Thank you so much for your wonderful insight!
Thank you so much for this article! You answered a lot of questions I had.
Great insights! Everything is changing so fast, and sometimes digital isn’t always better…or it can only take us so far. Nothing can substitute human evaluation and discussion, and fiction is such a HUMAN creation. When I think I’m done editing, I always print and edit with a pen because inevitably I find something on paper that I can’t see on the screen, it’s just a different experience.
Thanks, Kath and Caroline. This is an important post that allows us to focus on what we do. I’ll certainly consider a freelance editor or book doctor when I get that far with my WIP.
I was interested to hear about the ‘large canvas’ type of editing. I didn’t realise that some editors only focused on this, without the line-editing and grammar nit-picks.
So other than the immediate reaction notes, how would you go about editing on this larger scale? Would it be an essay type analysis with suggestions along with the verbal discussions?
As someone who is trying to be a content editor for self publishers, that was really awesome information! Thanks very much Caroline, I love the look at how it was, and how its become. Verifies my own thoughts.
I recently sold my first novel to a major NY house and I had heard that editors don’t edit any more, at least not in the way that they once did. I was fortunate enough to send my MS first to an agent who was interested and who sent it to the editor I ended up with. They both thought it was too long –it was >500 pp. and they thought it needed to be around 400. Even before she acquired it, my editor sent me a detailed edit memo, suggesting places where I might trim it, without cutting a single significant scene or restructuring the book. After I cut the 100 pp., she ended up taking it and sent me an even longer, more detailed edit memo and after I responded to that, she sent me a line edit. Then, even when we were at the copyediting stage, which I’ve just finished, she and I were still talking about places to tighten the work even more–and she even looked at some alternate approaches to a couple of spots that needed tweaking. She was attentive, incredibly insightful and I consider myself lucky since the book is far better because of her work on it.
I am getting the idea that my editor is unusual in this age and that’s too bad. . .every writer should have an editor like her.
“Then, there were budgets for historical romances (albeit minimal!). Now? Not so much.”
Ah ha!
Very interesting post. Thanks!
If messing with the book is going to take up time but won’t in the end, contribute to selling more copies, then it isn’t always done.
And I suspect this is why people start complaining about bestsellers pumping out books of decreasing quality. Thanks for saying it.
Really, though, for any of us trying to get published, our books should be as pristine as possible just because electronic communication has made querying so easy, and there’s a lot more competition these days. We want to give agents and editors fewer reasons to say no!
It’s a shame that time is being shaved off editing. I’ve read a few self-published books by writer friends whom I consider to be excellent writers. My overriding response? Great story, needs a good edit though. It’s impossible to suspend disbelief if a book needs another eye on it, it’s just too easy to picture the writer at his/her desk thrashing out their missives. We do need to produce ‘perfect’ copy but we all know that we miss things in our own work and that a more dispassionate eye will cut out the fluff.
Great post, thank you!
Ummm, talk about missing things, I didn’t check the box to follow me on twitter … doing it now!
Thanks for the insight as to the current role that Editors play within the traditional publishing industry.
Excellent post. In my limited experience, I agree that agents/editors want to see a finished, polished manuscript.
Yet sometimes a big (in both senses of the word) book manages to swim through the net.
Current example: My book club just read a (commercial fiction) book from the NYT bestseller list. It had an entertaining premise and included many well researched historical details.
But it was over 600 pages long (!) and the heroine was always napping, eating toast, showering, etc. When she finally landed in a particularly dicey situation, it resolved WAY too easily. The ending was a huge let down. I kept plugging away at it because I am a book cub nerd, but at least twice during every chapter, I caught myself wishing the author had employed a good editor. I won’t be reading the sequel.
How does such an unpolished novel (also the opinion of many major international reviewers) pass editorial muster in this lean and mean age?
Of course my question is now academic. The author of this tome has become a huge hit.
Thanks. It’s true we writers want to polish our craft to a fine sheen. Knowing that many editors aren’t editing these days, I’m all the more grateful for my publisher, Behler Publications. I’m currently on my second revision, and loving it.
Hi Caroline! Thanks so much for sharing insight into what goes through an editor’s head. I used a freelance editor for my manuscript, and I found her advice invaluable. Beta readers and crit groups are wonderful and provide tons of feedback, but most writers are working around jobs and families, and one must give to receive.
While I love reading other people’s work and learn a lot from critiquing, there’s something to be said for getting detailed, honest feedback on your entire manuscript from a trusted expert– one completely focused on improving your work.
I’m wouldn’t be surprised if you pick up some new clients from this post!
Fascinating post and explains why even best sellers these days have pacing errors, are too long, not well-structured etc
Have you ever seen a Scott Fitzgerald ms page? I imagine you’ve seen it. It’s absolutely amazing! So full of corrections and re-writes! That’s when I realized – visually, and no mistake about it! – the importance of having a good editor. He was a great writer, surely one of the best in American literature, but without his editor, I’m sure he wouldn’t have gotten anywhere!
The fact that you still use a blue pen is really endearing (you obviously belong to my generation!) and what I really like is precisely what the best editors have: this selfless love and concern for the author’s ms!
What a wonderful relationship!
[…] Do Editors Edit Anymore? […]
It is such wonderful work, isn’t it? Helping a writer bring out the full potential of this novel they have written, delving into the myriad possibilities, treating the writing of a story as an act of dignity and grace, worth taking as much time as necessary to do it right—because that’s what writing is.
Are you familiar with the Robert Gottlieb interview in the Paris Review? I love that darn interview. I love the image of editor and writer lying on their tummies side-by-side on the floor, eating tuna sandwiches as they hash out the finer points of their cooperative craft.
Simply the most fulfilling of lives for those of us in love with literature.
I’m grateful for good editors. I needed them for my memoir that’s about to be published. Without their second eyes, my book wouldn’t be the polished product that it is. We need editors. I, too, hope they and their blue pens remain active in the world of writing/publishing.
Ah… this really interests me. I work in educational publishing and have worked in book production for around 8 years. I’m now on a steering committee to review process improvement, namely, how to cut production times. It’s crazy to think that we’re now asking editors to read, correct and cut faster, and for typesetters to do the same. You’re right when you say that manuscripts MUST arrive in better condition (and on time!).
Caroline, good for you for sticking to pen and paper, it’s a dying art, and I’m afraid that on screen editing will lead to a reduction in quality. The way we read on screen is far, far different.
Cheers,
Jo
Hallelujah! This is a superb analysis of the state of editing today. Thanks for writing it, and for remaining dedicated to your craft.
I’ve been concerned about the lack of serious editing for years. Naturally, many great editors out there are still holding the line against bad writing, but many more of them are not.
This was true even ten years ago, when I worked full-time in the managing editorial department at Penguin. One military adventure title we turned out back then included an ending that made no sense whatsoever in the context of the first three quarters of the book. When asked how this had escaped his notice, the editor sheepishly admitted he had not read the entire manuscript before acquiring it, and his solution to the problem was to publish it as is. (After all, we had a schedule to keep.)
As a freelance proofreader for several publishers, I’ve found that the problem has only gotten worse since then: the art of line editing is on its deathbed. Publishers are more concerned with speeding up the production process and marketing their most commercial titles, to the detriment of their lists. It seems, as well, that agents are now left to do much of the heavy lifting when it comes to revising an author’s book (when their main concern should be their author’s business interests). A majority of the titles I’m sent to proofread, whether good or bad, appear never to have been properly line edited. Popular bestsellers with large budgets, too, are often passed through the system—from agent to editor to copy editor to proofreader—without anyone giving them the sort of deep editorial attention they deserve.
Even Fitzgerald and Hemingway relied on the talents of Maxwell Perkins to make their books the masterpieces they would ultimately become. Thomas Wolfe’s novels as we know them would not exist if Perkins had not hacked away with such ferocity at his author’s crates full of manuscript. But where are the Perkinses of the world today?
I’m happy to see that his spirit, at least, lives on in your blog.
[…] just came across a guest post called “Do Editors Edit Anymore?” by Caroline Tolley on the blog Writer Unboxed. Her piece is a superb analysis of the state of editing today, and it […]